Switching to FotM spec, with sadness :(Follow

4.0.6 will bring Sub's damage back.

http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=228587

Frankly I wasn't having problems on my rogue in PvP, but really all I did was Tol Barad and no one had gear at that point so it's totally possible that I'm ignorant of Sub's problems.

I will say though that I found Mutilate to be exceptionally bad in PvP when compared with Sub.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 1:15pm by Theophany

To be honest I've almost never had to prep for Evasion. Prep for a second Vanish, second Sprint, etc sure, but Evasion? Eh, not really.

Really only when dueling warriors.

Do like I did, switch to a hunter. Better in PvE, better in rated BGs, better at soloing.

Or whatever class you prefer.

I just can't stand my rogue's ridiculously bad soloing ability.

HI YOU'RE LEVEL 27.

I can bang my face on the keyboard at level 27 and kill things.

Hemo is not a combo point generator. It's meant to provide a debuff.

Posting on a subject you have no experience with and have no clue about is just about the stupidest thing I can think of.

Snarky comments aside do you really feel the rogue is "ridiculously bad (at) soloing" ?

I'd say it's Blizzard's strange idea of "fun" that's problematic. Increasing mob health and damage the way they did results in fights now being so "meaningful" that you easily spend more time healing yourself in whatever way than actually killing things. Get an add, and you better have cooldowns ready or be dead.

I just finished 80-85 with a cat druid, and it was slow an painful. Don't even want to think about how it might be for a rogue, having nothing but food and bandages. Pretty much the reason why I can't be bothered with leveling my rogue just yet.

Dunno, maybe I'm just spoiled, but I don't care for anything that requires more than 5 combo points and an eviscerate/ferocious bite for your average quest mob. The whole idea once was to kill things before they start to hurt you, but that one seems out the window.

With hunter, shammy, and mage, things felt good in the new zones right from the start.

Huh. I just finished levelling to 85 as Combat, and it was a breeze. Admittedly, I haven't levelled any alts to 85 yet, so I can't compare to other classes, but I very rarely had to stop to heal myself. Sure, I wasn't running around gathering a big mob to AoE down, but that's never really been the strong point of rogues anyway.

With Deadly Momentum, it's not like you have to waste all your CPs on Recuperate, just get it going, keep the pace up, and come back to loot the trail of corpses when you need a breather.

Maybe Assassination suffers from a lack of cooldowns compared to Combat? I pretty much always had at least one cooldown available, either offensive or defensive, and was usually back at 100% health by the time I reached the next mob. Even if I wasn't, so what? It's not a boss fight, our health pools are huge these days, and you can always vanish if you ***** up, so just keep going!

Up through the end of Deepholm, I can honestly say I haven't had a single problem leveling as my rogue (assassination). Deadly Momentum probably wouldn't make it into a raiding build, but it makes a ridiculous difference when questing and leveling. Just get up a 5 pt Recuperate on a questing mob, and go from mob to mob. Average time from killing a mob to the next mob being dead seems to be about 20 seconds.

To be fair, I do re-stealth and open with a CS normally.

Still, I've rarely had to eat food or use a bandage. It's possible this will change in Twilight Highlands, and obviously Tol Barad could be a little rocky. But so far it's been really easy. Not Wrath easy, but easy.

Hunter of course would be even easier, but still. :)

Yeah, like multiple people in this thread have said, leveling pre-80 is actually ridiculously easy. It's post 80 when mobs have more than 10k HP (more like 30-50k) that it gets harder.

And for the record, I didn't have much of any problems in leveling, per se. It was when you try and do Tol Barad dailies where the mobs hit like trucks and have 70k+ HP that it gets rough. Rogues have immense problems dealing with multiple mobs, and mobs in TBP are packed so tightly in most areas that you'll be dealing with adds fairly often.

Obviously it'll get easier with gear, but for fresh 85s, it's a nightmare. Add that to rated BGs (where rogues are good, but other classes are much better as ranges are much larger) and other classes are much more desirable because of kiting and rogue's mobility.

Also add in PvE where (from what I hear) rogues are fairly average in terms of DPS (i.e. even below some hybrid classes) and have more stringent movement requirements placed on them, and I have no desire to play my rogue.

@Maz
I had no real trouble leveling 80-85 as mutilate in basically my old raid spec (i.e., no Deadly Momentum), but I never felt like I was really dominating anything. And I definitely had to watch out for adds, but I guess the non-faceroll was what Blizz was going for. For reference' sake, the rogue was in mostly ICC25 gear when he ventured into Mt Hyjal the first time.

As a point of comparison, I'm currently leveling my mage and pally (both L.82 now), both of whom were in i200 or lower WOLK gear. Haha, actually, the mage was head to toe in S2 (yes that's 2 as in two as in L.70 arena gear -- he was my first toon, but kinda skipped WOLK), now that I think about it. Anyhow, mage started off frost and really felt underpowered. In a way I was kinda enjoying actually having to nova/blink/kite a bit in order to finish off that last 1/3 of a mob's hp. Was strange at first, after WOLK, where everything died before it got to me, but after getting over that shock, not too shabby. Then I switched to arcane and it became a cakewalk. ABlast automatically applying Slow instantly makes arcane a super viable leveling spec.

I kept the pally specced prot just for esses and gees. Stuff dies kinda slow but I never have to worry about checking my hp bar like I did on the rogue. Overall efficiency I'd say is lower than the rogue unless I'm in a situation that I can pull multiple mobs and Hammer of the Righteous gets some use.

As people have mentioned, TB dailies are a different story b/c of how packed together they are and how quickly the mobs respawn. That said, between Combat Readiness, Dismantle, Evasion, Recup, Blind, and my personal favorite iwin button, Vanish (cuz if I'm not losin', I'm winnin', amirite?), we do okay.

At 85, it's hard for me to say whether mut is ok, pve dmg-wise. I'm only doing 5mans so far (heroics now), and mostly pugs at that. I generally am way ahead on recount, but see my prior sentence for why that's nigh irrelevant. The couple of times I haven't been on top, it has been a hunter with a better gearscore that beat me. Not sure if the luck of the draw has just grouped me with better hunters or if the hunter class is actually better.

Assassination is great for leveling past 80. I'm romping around in Uldum right now, and it's disgusting how quickly I'm killing things and how little downtime I have. I have to eat or bandage maybe once every hour or so, though I am careful to pull only one unless I have a CD up.

Definitely no reason to change to combat if you like Mutilate.

It's odd, because being a Feral Druid at heart, you'd think the Subtlety style appealed to me more, but I'm actually liking the Mutilate spec more.

Seeing a Rogue in my heroic earlier today (on my Druid) do a 55k Envenom crit might have had something to do with it, though.