Patch Changes (4.0.3)Follow

In case you hadn't heard we're getting our talent points reset. Here's why:



Well Malfurion's Gift got a lot more accessible, and our mastery is still confounding. I'll be picking up Glyph of the Treant I think.

Good thing I'm not leveling up another Bear Druid. Gimped Swipe and no other AOE until level 81. Why not just neuter us while you're at it?

Doesn't look like they made any talent changes to Boomkins. Yay I got a respec for free! :D I'd been wanting to respec to dump the feral talent for extra mana and get the resto one for higher dmg with Moonfire, I just hadn't gotten around to it.

ouch

People are running some math on the O-boards and apparently Swipe (Bear) is broken. Someone registered it doing half the tooltip damage, which is what I'm seeing as well. Hits for ~500 and crits for ~1500. On a 6-second cooldown.

It's a joke trying to tank any AOE right now. A Warrior pulled aggro off of my Swipe + Demoralizing Roar with one Whirlwind.

Also, I lost 10k health.

Time to go Cat again.

I don't think they want druids to tank.

They put Swipe on a 6-second cooldown, but buffed its damage to compensate.

The problem right now is that Swipe is doing less damage than it did pre-cooldown, due to the bug, so basically the current situation is that Blizzard put a 6-second cooldown on Swipe and then reduced its damage by 20% or so.

Good times.

I regemmed/enchanted to Kitty and then respec'd Critchicken, because that's how I roll.

Makes it easier when HC farming anyway as I don't have to switch gear.

Im prob going to go back as a healer for offspec. I loved tanking as a druid tank but now its just a pain. I can hold threat just fine single target but anything past that forget it. I guess with cata that might be ok with CC or whatever it is they plan to do, but I have my doubts. I prob will end up just putting up with the 15 min queues and just be a dps for dungeons.

I seriously haven't had any problems with swipe before the bug. I had no trouble keeping aggro, it just wasn't mindless like it used to be. You're far over-exaggerating an imagined problem.

I honestly don't think the problem is exaggerated at all. I've been playing druid since the beginning of BC and tanking with it ever since. Never before have I had these types of issues tanking. I just can't do AoE tanking since the change. It's especially bad in the levels before you can even obtain gear with +hit on it or gem it with hit gems. Single target tanking is even worse without maul being on next attack. I just sit there with a full rage bar and I can't deplete it. AoE pulls I have no rage EVER. 30 for maul? 30 for swipe? really? Even your charge uses up rage instead of giving you some like a warrior. The changes were so frustrating for me that I made a warrior.

Warrior tanking has been nothing but fun since I started it. Rend, Thunderclap, Shockwave, cleave, thunderclap. That's pretty much it. Throw in a couple shield bashes and devastates and you're good. Single target is also fun with a completely different rotation. No threat problems, none at all. It's not as easy as wrath tanking but I think they got it just right. It's fun, fast paced and interesting. A similarly geared druid doesn't even come close to that kind of capability. Why would you make a tank class that doesn't compare to the other ones? It makes no sense.

*Edit*

I realize that they are trying to get away from AoE tanking, and I understand and like the idea of CC, LoS pulls..etc. This might even encourage CC in BC and northrend instances. But what is more likely to happen? People using CC or just waiting for a warrior or DK to come along and tank for you? I remember the trade messages in BC. "LF1M Paladin tank for H SL." I never saw people requesting warriors or druids. Why, because people always take the path of least resistance.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 7:00pm by snieh

I have a character of every tanking class in the game, and it's not like I've done nothing but spam Swipe the last two years. The 6-second change, in terms of making the game more interesting, was a complete blunder. Sure, put a cooldown on it so we don't have to mash it every GCD, but that doesn't make the AOE rotation more interesting. It just means we've got six seconds of Maul and Demoralizing Roar spam while we wait for Swipe to come off the cooldown again, because it's still the best AOE attack we have.

Thrash was a move in the right direction, but putting it into the game at level 81 was downright retarded, for two major reasons:

1. Cataclysm (80+) is allegedly the death of AOE.
2. Outland (60-70) and Northrend (70-80) have not changed.

So we get an additional AOE attack the moment we leave the content that required lots of AOE. I mean, who the hell came up with that idea?

And, Xsarus, I don't know what level your Druid is, or what it's wearing, but Swipe is complete weaksauce when you're not wearing T10 equivalent gear or better. The 2pT10 bonus adds 20% to Swipe! I can't even begin to imagine what kind of hell Bears without two pieces of T10 are now facing. 20% reduced in the patch and 20% reduced from not wearing T10.



You trollin'? Seriously, you don't have issues after the bug that cut the damage of Swipe in half by accident? Could you direct me to whatever game you're playing where Druids don't have to rely on Swipe for AOE? Sounds intriguing. Especially since a Swipe using level 1 base values is good enough for you to tank stuff. Sounds like an amazing game.

In my world, on my planet, DPS is now doing somewhere between 8,000 and 15,000 DPS in heroics. Maybe you're running with guildies, or exceptionally bright puggies, who understand that you need some prep time before they go all blood lust AOE on you, but again, in my world I'm running dungeons with random nubcakes of the 21st degree. You tell them to wait up and they'll charge ahead. You tell them you need a couple of seconds to secure aggro because Swipe is broken and they'll charge ahead.

That you're even defending the bug, by saying it's not really an issue, is beyond my comprehension, and I'm afraid I'll have to go stab a puppy now.

My point, throughout most of this thread, is that the Swipe change in terms of making the game interesting was fail. That adding Thrash was a good move, but adding it 81 levels into the game was idiotic. I know end-game is what the game is balanced around, but I'm sure Blizzard would prefer it if people actually got to end-game without killing someone out of sheer frustration first.

Tanking, even before the Swipe bug, was not more interesting. Sure, you have to apply Pulverize every couple of seconds, but Lacerate only stacks to three, so it's not like I'm in dire need of spare GCDs. And AOE tanking is just downright boring. Swipe > Maul > Demoralizing Roar > Swipe > Maul...

But what do I know, I'm just over-exaggerating an imagined problem.

WTB shuttle ride to Xsarus' planet.

The randomness of the Tab key doesn't help a lot either. But Swipe should be able to secure a threat lead so that we have time to apply Lacerates. It currently doesn't. Part due to the bug, but even then, DPS AOE isn't getting nerfed along with the tank AOE. I'm not saying I should just be able to Swipe every six seconds and win, but it would be helpful if the first Swipe actually had an impact.





I recently leveled a Priest and Death Knight through Outland and am now running low level dungeons in Northrend. I don't know where you got the idea that Outland isn't AOE heavy. It begins with Hellfire Ramparts and the 3+ groups you pull there. It ends in Mana Tombs and all that jazz where you pull 10+ owls or mana wyrms at once. Good stuff.



The problem being that once we hit end-game in Cataclysm and people start leveling up new tanks, they'll eventually get in a group with level 85's in T12 or whatever. And while leveling up, they'll run into people in heirlooms. Heirlooms are crazy overpowered while leveling, that's why people get them.



The problem again being that in the 10 seconds it takes for me to apply Lacerate to 10+ mobs, my healer and every single DPS would've pulled aggro and probably died. The solution would be to:



And the problem here is that generally, random people on the internet don't acknowledge authority. These are the people who brought you the **** jokes. They don't listen. If they die too much, they just kick you from the group.



Fair enough.



Fun and frustration are two separate things to me. Making the game harder is not the same as making it more interesting or fun. At least not to me. If I wanted to be challenged and frustrated with the game, I'd play it blindfold with my right arm tied to my head.

I want the option. Every other class gets one.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:38pm by Mazra