Hello everyone. I have a level 51 pally and have tanked several random's from level 20 up to the this point as ret. I would just equip a sword and shield and I had no problems. When I hit level 50 I decided if i was going to keep my tanking going i should probably duel spec into prot to make things a little easier on the healer and the group as a whole. I grabbed duel spec, took a look at this site for build suggestions and off i went.
Now for my problem. When i was running with the ret spec I was using the Seal of Command Glyph and I never had any mana issues. Now that I'm tanking with a prot spec I am OOM after two or three pulls. I dont know what I am doing wrong, is it my rotation, spec or both? I have taken the two points in Spiritual Attunement and even have the glyph for the extra 2% mana return on top of that. I also use Blessing of Sanctuary and keep holy shield up at all times, along with full points in Redoubt. My thinking being that BoS gives back mana for blocks so try to get as many as i can, but I am just not gaining mana back fast enough.
My normal pull is Avenger's Shield, holy shield, Consecration then Judgment. After that i keep Holy Shield on cool down and and use judgment and Consecration whenever they are up. This has me taking very little damage, but as i said i am OOM fast and then the whole group has to wait for me to drink. That normally leads to complaints and comments of "pull faster". Do any of you have any thoughts that might help me conserve mana or a better spec you can suggest? I have linked my armory so you can look at my spec. Thank you in advance for any helpful comments.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Altar+of+Storms&cn=Repressed&gn=Didnt+i+Pwn+U+Before
tldr:
Level 51 prot pally has mana issues.
Edited, Jun 28th 2010 3:23pm by Hillian
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Don't cast so many consecrations. After the first one, you should be fine.
And remember that until 75, when you get Divine Plea, it's entire fine to use Seal of Wisdom. You can even get the Glyph of the Wise to make switching to it easier.
Judge Wisdom, cast Consecration less, switch to Seal of Wisdom either partly through the pull or use it solely.
And remember that until 75, when you get Divine Plea, it's entire fine to use Seal of Wisdom. You can even get the Glyph of the Wise to make switching to it easier.
Judge Wisdom, cast Consecration less, switch to Seal of Wisdom either partly through the pull or use it solely.
I second using Seal of Wisdom. With the ridiculous mana regen you can get from it, you might not even have to change your rotation, and you'll still be holding aggro just fine. Judge and Seal Wisdom and you should have no more issues.
As for spec, I'd probably go with this at 51, though it's somewhat a matter of preference. Divinity sounds nice, but it's way too pricy for what it gives, especially while leveling. Argent Defender, on the other hand, is a life saver with a bad healer or a bad string of crits. And nice though maxed Reckoning is, in groups of 3-4 or more it'll almost always be up whether it's a 6% chance or 10% chance, and in smaller groups it doesn't matter as much. It's a fun and helpful leveling talent, but it's not the highest priority.
As for spec, I'd probably go with this at 51, though it's somewhat a matter of preference. Divinity sounds nice, but it's way too pricy for what it gives, especially while leveling. Argent Defender, on the other hand, is a life saver with a bad healer or a bad string of crits. And nice though maxed Reckoning is, in groups of 3-4 or more it'll almost always be up whether it's a 6% chance or 10% chance, and in smaller groups it doesn't matter as much. It's a fun and helpful leveling talent, but it's not the highest priority.
Scholar
20 posts
Thank you both for the feed back, it never occurred to me to use Seal of Wisdom. I was so stuck on using Seal of the Righteous because of the extra holy damage and thinking that would translate to more threat.
Majivo, I took a look at the spec you linked and I will respec to it tonight. Most of the builds I saw for prot were based around being level 80. I kind of just went down the line with the one I had linked in my pervious post. Your input on Argent Defender was definitely right on. I cant tell you how many times I have been so low on HP that I have to use Lay on Hands or even bubble to keep from dying.
Any thoughts on my Glyph selections?
Thanks!
Edited, Jun 29th 2010 10:37am by Hillian
Majivo, I took a look at the spec you linked and I will respec to it tonight. Most of the builds I saw for prot were based around being level 80. I kind of just went down the line with the one I had linked in my pervious post. Your input on Argent Defender was definitely right on. I cant tell you how many times I have been so low on HP that I have to use Lay on Hands or even bubble to keep from dying.
Any thoughts on my Glyph selections?
Thanks!
Edited, Jun 29th 2010 10:37am by Hillian
Glyphs really are a matter of preference at this level, as long as you aren't using something silly like Holy Light. If you find you're constantly at 60%+ mana with Seal of Wisdom active, then I'd swap the Spiritual Attunement glyph for Glyph of Judgment, but you honestly aren't going to recognize the difference much. For minor glyphs, I like Blessing of Kings just to reduce how much mana you have to spend off the bat in a group, but Sense Undead and Lay on Hands are the only ones which will impact your combat ability at all, and then only by a very small amount. When you hit the mid-60s and you're doing a lot of runs in Auchindoun, you'll actually have undead to fight. Until then it's entirely whatever you feel like, and if you chose to keep your glyphs exactly as they are to save money, I couldn't fault you in the least.
I think divine plea is at level 71 actually.
Mana can be an issue. Consecration should only be spammed on big pulls. Otherwise, drop one for aggro and then rely on your other attacks for the rest of the damage.
You may find yourself using seal of wisdom especially when soloing or pulling small groups. Even with mediocre gear at level 51 you should have enough toys to be able to pull off some pretty decent sized pulls. Keep in mind that the more mobs you have on you the more damage you'll do with Holy Shield and the more mana you'll get back with Blessing of Sanctuary.
Leveling through Northrend I'd often pull everything in sight. The mana that I would get from things beating me up was enough to spam holy lights and keep me alive when I had pulled too many to just mow down. Experiment with it a little. Figure out what kind of mobs are mass AoEable and which ones are better left to a slow careful kill.
Mana can be an issue. Consecration should only be spammed on big pulls. Otherwise, drop one for aggro and then rely on your other attacks for the rest of the damage.
You may find yourself using seal of wisdom especially when soloing or pulling small groups. Even with mediocre gear at level 51 you should have enough toys to be able to pull off some pretty decent sized pulls. Keep in mind that the more mobs you have on you the more damage you'll do with Holy Shield and the more mana you'll get back with Blessing of Sanctuary.
Leveling through Northrend I'd often pull everything in sight. The mana that I would get from things beating me up was enough to spam holy lights and keep me alive when I had pulled too many to just mow down. Experiment with it a little. Figure out what kind of mobs are mass AoEable and which ones are better left to a slow careful kill.
10 posts
Since you've been leveling as ret, it's fair to assume your 1 handed weapon skills are possibly a bit behind, which could result in misses which will not grant the benefit from your judgement of wisdom. You'll notice this a lot even when you get Divine Plea, because it wont stay up and get refreshed since your white swings will be missing when leveling up your weapon skills.
Edited, Jul 28th 2010 8:44am by Georgelol
Edited, Jul 28th 2010 8:44am by Georgelol
These guys have just about hit it.
Just to hit the points I like:
Seal of Wiz. No shame in keeping your mana up. Just means less down time. Judge Wiz too.
Drop one Con and tab target through to keep your agro lvl. The trick is the balance. Drop your first Con, then wait, not for the CD, but for your mana to hit say, 75% then drop another... balance that with the over-health of your mobs to see if it's really worth it.
If you got a good healer, switch to Ret Aura. Helps the agro, and with all the mana you should be getting from the healing it should keep you near the top.
Another change that can be made while lvling is move your pts from Imp Judge and Heart of the Crusader over to Benediction, as all prot spells are instant cast.
Learning Prot is fun (or so I think). Take some time to go over your spell list and see all the quirks you can get. Like if you have a 5 pull and one is a spell caster that is in the back, pull the first 4 with HotR drop your Con and as your caster is building up his spell hit him with your AvengSh. As it silences him he'll walk into your group and start getting hit with the random HotR and for sure in your Con. Just cool things ;) Have fun!
Just to hit the points I like:
Seal of Wiz. No shame in keeping your mana up. Just means less down time. Judge Wiz too.
Drop one Con and tab target through to keep your agro lvl. The trick is the balance. Drop your first Con, then wait, not for the CD, but for your mana to hit say, 75% then drop another... balance that with the over-health of your mobs to see if it's really worth it.
If you got a good healer, switch to Ret Aura. Helps the agro, and with all the mana you should be getting from the healing it should keep you near the top.
Another change that can be made while lvling is move your pts from Imp Judge and Heart of the Crusader over to Benediction, as all prot spells are instant cast.
Learning Prot is fun (or so I think). Take some time to go over your spell list and see all the quirks you can get. Like if you have a 5 pull and one is a spell caster that is in the back, pull the first 4 with HotR drop your Con and as your caster is building up his spell hit him with your AvengSh. As it silences him he'll walk into your group and start getting hit with the random HotR and for sure in your Con. Just cool things ;) Have fun!
Not that I don't appreciate trying to help him, but it's been a month now. The dude's probably 80 by now, or at least not coming back to read this thread.
LOL! I didn't even notice the date.
His Armory dose say he's 70 now though. Shouldn't be seeing the issues he did at 51.
Damn these fourms have slowed down. I do remember the days of Captian Jack and when this place was blazin.
Ahh well. Thanks for the duh!
Another barrell for my friend Jack.
His Armory dose say he's 70 now though. Shouldn't be seeing the issues he did at 51.
Damn these fourms have slowed down. I do remember the days of Captian Jack and when this place was blazin.
Ahh well. Thanks for the duh!
Another barrell for my friend Jack.
It doesn't matter whether the OP is ever coming back to this or not. This thread is helping others too. I had the same problems at the same time, and didn't have to open a new thread. It's all good with things moving slow :)
In general I find that there is little to no information at all about seals and judgments in the typical FAQ/guide. Things might be rather obvious for Holy and Ret, but for Prot they are not. Might be due to the fact that leveling as Prot and doing plenty of dungeons before reaching max level hasn't really been an option before the introduction of the cross-realm groups.
In general I find that there is little to no information at all about seals and judgments in the typical FAQ/guide. Things might be rather obvious for Holy and Ret, but for Prot they are not. Might be due to the fact that leveling as Prot and doing plenty of dungeons before reaching max level hasn't really been an option before the introduction of the cross-realm groups.
Glad to hear there is still good info here, and that it's helping you out. There seems to be a general lack of tanks out there.
Prot and judgements. They can be tricky, and mixing them with your seals to get the best effect out of the situation is of course the goal. Again I'm glad to hear the guys hear are helping out.
Prot and judgements. They can be tricky, and mixing them with your seals to get the best effect out of the situation is of course the goal. Again I'm glad to hear the guys hear are helping out.
Well, it's working alright now, I guess. I'm about to hit 72 now, and Divine Plea is making things a lot easier.
I am generally judging Wisdom. For the most part I'm using Seal of Vengeance unless I drop down to like below 20% mana and then hit DP and change to Wisdom. Gets me back to full in no time. Disc priests are a bit of an annoyance though. Wish they would let me take some damage before shielding me.
I'm using the heirloom mace, which probably isn't helping things due to it's lack of speed. I don't even think there is an actual tanking weapon before the reward from the Ragemane quest in Zul'Drak.
Prot is fun to level with. Only challenge while doing quests is to gather enough mobs to keep the mana flowing and kill at a decent pace. Single mobs are anything but effective and feel painfully slow.
I am generally judging Wisdom. For the most part I'm using Seal of Vengeance unless I drop down to like below 20% mana and then hit DP and change to Wisdom. Gets me back to full in no time. Disc priests are a bit of an annoyance though. Wish they would let me take some damage before shielding me.
I'm using the heirloom mace, which probably isn't helping things due to it's lack of speed. I don't even think there is an actual tanking weapon before the reward from the Ragemane quest in Zul'Drak.
Prot is fun to level with. Only challenge while doing quests is to gather enough mobs to keep the mana flowing and kill at a decent pace. Single mobs are anything but effective and feel painfully slow.
If you have specced into Guarded by the Light and chain pull you wont drop Divine Plea at all. You don't really even need to chain pull either just make sure you attack the last mob to die with a physical spell (not judgement) and you should have 10 seconds to grab the next group before it drops off.
Edit: You can always kite that one mob to the next group of mobs if you really want. Just be carefull as some of those casters don't always follow you even if you silence them.
Also don't forget about your racial spells. I hated losing Every man for Himself when I transferred to Horde but soon realized that an aoe silence was a great trade off.
Edited, Aug 3rd 2010 7:29am by arthoriuss
Edit: You can always kite that one mob to the next group of mobs if you really want. Just be carefull as some of those casters don't always follow you even if you silence them.
Also don't forget about your racial spells. I hated losing Every man for Himself when I transferred to Horde but soon realized that an aoe silence was a great trade off.
Edited, Aug 3rd 2010 7:29am by arthoriuss
Quote:
'm using the heirloom mace, which probably isn't helping things due to it's lack of speed.
Generally slower wpns have higher proc rates than faster ones to even out ppm mechanics which basically means you'll probably see more procs with a slower wpn than a faster one due to your instant strikes proc'ing more often. Also a slower wpn is ideal for seal of command which is supeior for most trash and quest mobs once you have enough talent pts to spec it.
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