So I've been leveling a horde death knight. Mainly just to try out horde stuff. Orginally he was going to tank, but that's on hold. I still have my level 17 warrior to practice tanking with. Anyways, that's not the point.
The point is that wow, death knights are buff! I mean, my gear _sucks_. This is my only character on the server. No heirloom gear, I haven't gone to the AH to upgrade his gear since he was made. He's literally in all quest greens, with his weapons being maybe underleveled by now. But I get top DPS meter nearly every time in dungeons. Not only that, it feels like I always have tools for the situation. Pull aggro? There's an app for that! I have an anti magic shell and IBF, chains of ice, run away like a little girl until the tank can save me. Mob eating the healer's face? zot! GET OVER HERE!!! Its just crazy the survivability yet amazing dps.
And then there's PvP! I feel STRONG. Now, this is still while leveling, but all the extra abilities really make a difference. Mages simply have no chance. Done. Blink? Lulz. I think the hardest for me is probably ret paladins, because they can outlast me with heals.
One thing I've really noticed is the huge difference between PvP geared people in BGs and non, because I'm actually a class that doesn't just fall over because I stood in the wrong spot and a hunter tabbed over to me. People my gear level have it coming to them, but people who are in 70 pvp gear, I get them down maybe 20% before they smash me, it's a huge difference.
Now, this was BGs at 70, so maybe things even out. DKs seem much less common now at endgame. I know they were pretty powerful, but everyone seems to think they got nerfed through the floor, but right now, it sure doesn't feel like that. Maybe I shouldn't say anything :X
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Woe! Death Knights are strong!Follow
I feel the nerfs in PvP (arena). I just can't do the DPS to kill people (healers, or someone with).
But then I can live a good time if all things go right.
I'm trying to get into Arena, so I dragged a fried along. She came as a Lock and we did 2s.
One fight put us up against a Paladin (ret) and a Rogue.
Lock friend is still working on getting PvP gear, and I told her she really needs the Trinkets (for rogues and other stun like moves) and she could probably live longer :p
So yea, a rogue and a paladin, We run in. We only see the Pally, and I go about attacking it. Rogue pops up behind Lock and before I can grip it to me, lock friend dies (was sad how fast she dropped ><).
I figure I'm done.
I can't kill the paladin (no BAM! damage to beat out him healing himself).
Rogue can't kill me (his tricks just are not working, I have my Trinket all saved just for him)...
So I stand there and proceed to do my thing, my rotation. Kill off a Pet when need (for HP)..hope to die within the 30sec...no? Summon a new ghoul. Start all over. Summon Gargoyle when he isn't on cool down (fights like this I REALLY wish I could use Army of the Dead)
Friend is just digging it. cheering me on, asking how I am able to heal myself. flipping out in both party and guild. I can't respond. I would love to pull an awesome and win. . .
After 10 or more minuets...different story. The Paladin has 20% MP. the Rogue knows he can't take me down, and I'm sure the 2 of them are not happy campers and just want me to drop.
So I stop doing my rotation and let them finish me off (the entire fight I hovered around 20% HP).
Was the longest PvP fight I've ever done, the one prior was a duel against a Priest and the only reason I won was due to her running out of MP to heal herself.
As for BGs. If a healer would heal me, the fun is on. I do wish Strangulate and Mind Freeze were a bit stronger (last longer), because again... I jump in a group with that is 2v5+ (me and a healer), we are going to lose out to them if they also have a healer. I can mash mind freeze and strangulate all I want, I just can't burn them down fast enough to stop them healing to take down the rest.
I so want to get into a 3s or a 5s team and see if I can tear it up. I think 2 healers (Shaman + Other) and 3 pet classes would rock. I just don't know any healers that want to do pvp (playing on a pve realm makes pvp tough sometimes XD).
We are pretty strong, at 80 I can tell what DK is there to play, and what DK is there for free arena points.
Edited, Jun 6th 2010 7:28pm by Sandinmygum
But then I can live a good time if all things go right.
I'm trying to get into Arena, so I dragged a fried along. She came as a Lock and we did 2s.
One fight put us up against a Paladin (ret) and a Rogue.
Lock friend is still working on getting PvP gear, and I told her she really needs the Trinkets (for rogues and other stun like moves) and she could probably live longer :p
So yea, a rogue and a paladin, We run in. We only see the Pally, and I go about attacking it. Rogue pops up behind Lock and before I can grip it to me, lock friend dies (was sad how fast she dropped ><).
I figure I'm done.
I can't kill the paladin (no BAM! damage to beat out him healing himself).
Rogue can't kill me (his tricks just are not working, I have my Trinket all saved just for him)...
So I stand there and proceed to do my thing, my rotation. Kill off a Pet when need (for HP)..hope to die within the 30sec...no? Summon a new ghoul. Start all over. Summon Gargoyle when he isn't on cool down (fights like this I REALLY wish I could use Army of the Dead)
Friend is just digging it. cheering me on, asking how I am able to heal myself. flipping out in both party and guild. I can't respond. I would love to pull an awesome and win. . .
After 10 or more minuets...different story. The Paladin has 20% MP. the Rogue knows he can't take me down, and I'm sure the 2 of them are not happy campers and just want me to drop.
So I stop doing my rotation and let them finish me off (the entire fight I hovered around 20% HP).
Was the longest PvP fight I've ever done, the one prior was a duel against a Priest and the only reason I won was due to her running out of MP to heal herself.
As for BGs. If a healer would heal me, the fun is on. I do wish Strangulate and Mind Freeze were a bit stronger (last longer), because again... I jump in a group with that is 2v5+ (me and a healer), we are going to lose out to them if they also have a healer. I can mash mind freeze and strangulate all I want, I just can't burn them down fast enough to stop them healing to take down the rest.
I so want to get into a 3s or a 5s team and see if I can tear it up. I think 2 healers (Shaman + Other) and 3 pet classes would rock. I just don't know any healers that want to do pvp (playing on a pve realm makes pvp tough sometimes XD).
We are pretty strong, at 80 I can tell what DK is there to play, and what DK is there for free arena points.
Edited, Jun 6th 2010 7:28pm by Sandinmygum
DKs don't really have burst damage, and keeping up diseases (which is really necessary for most specs) can be a pain in the ***. So they have trouble with the current endgame pvp systems.
But you have a LOT of utility. You can be very useful in PvP as a support character--easily keeping a caster locked down while keeping another (or the same) enemy perma-snared with Chains of Ice/Frost Fever. And each tree gets different support abilities, so it is sometimes very hard to predict a DK's actions until they reveal more about their spec.
But if you want 1v1, you'll be disappointed at cap. You still survive for a loooong time if specced right though.
Though, you'll destroy bad PvPers more easily than most other classes, since you have so many tools and will have an easier time keeping them in range for sustained DpS (Death Grip is totally one of my favorite abilities in the game).
In PvE, it also evens out. A lot of the DK OP QQing came from the fact that they started with awesome gear. It is much easier for a Mage to pull out huge numbers when they first hit cap than it is for a DK.
I'm pretty happy with where we are now, but that's because I don't mind the lack of 1v1 ability. But so few classes can actually take down healers easily 1v1, I hardly care.
But you have a LOT of utility. You can be very useful in PvP as a support character--easily keeping a caster locked down while keeping another (or the same) enemy perma-snared with Chains of Ice/Frost Fever. And each tree gets different support abilities, so it is sometimes very hard to predict a DK's actions until they reveal more about their spec.
But if you want 1v1, you'll be disappointed at cap. You still survive for a loooong time if specced right though.
Though, you'll destroy bad PvPers more easily than most other classes, since you have so many tools and will have an easier time keeping them in range for sustained DpS (Death Grip is totally one of my favorite abilities in the game).
In PvE, it also evens out. A lot of the DK OP QQing came from the fact that they started with awesome gear. It is much easier for a Mage to pull out huge numbers when they first hit cap than it is for a DK.
I'm pretty happy with where we are now, but that's because I don't mind the lack of 1v1 ability. But so few classes can actually take down healers easily 1v1, I hardly care.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
I get a kick out of how you made this announcement with a statement of despair! Oh, woe is me! =P
Killing a healer is just about setting them up.
You need to be in blood presence against any healer that doesnt have disease dispelling abilities. Harder hitting dots tends to help out a lot.
Go into UP when you pop garg since your garg gets the haste from UP and not the damage from BP.
Chain your ghoul stun and strang 3 seconds after you MF for locking a healer down longer.
Like I said, you have to set up a healer. I run dk/resto in 2's and quite a few times I find myself sitting on cds waiting for the right moment before I can unleash on the healer.
You need to be in blood presence against any healer that doesnt have disease dispelling abilities. Harder hitting dots tends to help out a lot.
Go into UP when you pop garg since your garg gets the haste from UP and not the damage from BP.
Chain your ghoul stun and strang 3 seconds after you MF for locking a healer down longer.
Like I said, you have to set up a healer. I run dk/resto in 2's and quite a few times I find myself sitting on cds waiting for the right moment before I can unleash on the healer.
Sandinmygum wrote:
Lots.
This Rogue and Paladin must've been bad. Very bad. (Like awful.)
I love Blood...and pretty much only Blood. The Strike that heals you is in your rotation? Yes. It's also buffed and better for when you just do a rotation of it to get the most self healing? Yes. Much love. I really can't imagine being any other spec, though maybe Unholy for PvP for some nicer burst, but I'll never not love Blood.
I have to admit, frost seems nice for PvP too. I had a bad spec previously, but it was better for PvP than your average PvE frost, because I took Hungering Cold. That is a mean ability. AoE CC like woah. Howling Blast is a pretty nice burst spell, and at range too. I think I confused a lot of mages when they blinked away and met icy touch/howling blast/deathcoil and died anyways even though scorpion pull was down. In communist Russia death knight kites you! No really, for rogues and such I found chains of ice+ ranged attacks to be a rather effective way at chipping down their life and turning the fight in my favor. That + boiling blood to drop their vanish as soon as they use it, and DK is a rogue killing machine.
Frost Pros -
Higher Burst, OB > OB > FS > FS > FS with full RP is pretty sick with a KM proc
Hungering Cold is a nasty snare
Frost Cons -
No Disease protection, which leads into my next point.
No reliable snare. Chillblains is terrible in general and any disease dispeller will ruin your day as they kite you.
All your defensive cooldowns barring IBF are melee based.
Unless you spec for it your LB > DC self heals hit way less harder.
You only have MF and Strang to set up kills
You've got less overall utility.
Pet Sac requires 2 globals
Unholy Pros -
Disease Protection
Massive Utility
Lessened magic damage taken.
Your defensive cooldowns cover both magic and melee
Ghoul Stun
Gargoyle + UP + Haste gloves = 1.2 second garg casts
Sac Pet only costs one global not two
More Health return on LB > DC self heal.
Unholy Cons -
Lower Burst
Ultimately its about what you enjoy the most. I do like frost pvp but it's way too helter skelter for my taste. The lack of control on a target really doesnt it well with me so I tend to stick to unholy/frost haste spec because of having a proc based weapon.
Higher Burst, OB > OB > FS > FS > FS with full RP is pretty sick with a KM proc
Hungering Cold is a nasty snare
Frost Cons -
No Disease protection, which leads into my next point.
No reliable snare. Chillblains is terrible in general and any disease dispeller will ruin your day as they kite you.
All your defensive cooldowns barring IBF are melee based.
Unless you spec for it your LB > DC self heals hit way less harder.
You only have MF and Strang to set up kills
You've got less overall utility.
Pet Sac requires 2 globals
Unholy Pros -
Disease Protection
Massive Utility
Lessened magic damage taken.
Your defensive cooldowns cover both magic and melee
Ghoul Stun
Gargoyle + UP + Haste gloves = 1.2 second garg casts
Sac Pet only costs one global not two
More Health return on LB > DC self heal.
Unholy Cons -
Lower Burst
Ultimately its about what you enjoy the most. I do like frost pvp but it's way too helter skelter for my taste. The lack of control on a target really doesnt it well with me so I tend to stick to unholy/frost haste spec because of having a proc based weapon.
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