Guide for Mutilate Rogues(Updated for 3.3.3)Follow

GodofMoo’s Mutilate Rogue guide

This is the first guide I’ve ever written so here we go.

Table of Contents:
I. Spec/Glyphs
II. Stats
III. Trinkets and Gear Discussion
IV. Gemming, Enchanting and Professions
V. Rotation
VI. FAQ
VII. Useful Links

Disclamer: This guide is written from the perspective of a rogue who is currently in IC25 and aiming for the max possible DPS possible. Depending on your level of gear this guide may not be 100% correct. Use this guide as a goal to aim for, but use logic and common sense to determine if it will work for you. In addition I may take some things for granted, if anything is unclear please ask.

Disclamer #2: This information is not 100% fact, people have different gear and as such have different needs. If you are unsure of something consult your friendly neighborhood spreadsheet.
Super simple questions will be answered in the FAQ.

Section I: Spec

There is currently 1 viable Mutilate spec, that is a 51/18/2 Ruptureless Build.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ec0egoVboIuVo0xV0xcZb:TIp

That is the spec you will want to take. What follows is an explanation of what talent and why, and why you don't pick some others.

Assassination:
Tier 1:
Improved Eviscerate- We use Envenom.
Remorseless Attacks- We don't kill things that give xp/honor in raids.
Malice: 5% crit= yummy.

Tier 2:
Ruthlessness- Gives you combo points.
Blood Spatter- We don't use Rupture.(This may change in 3.3.3).
Puncturing Wounds- 15% crit on our main combo point generator.

Tier 3:
Vigor-You should never be energy capped so this doesn't help.
Improved Expose Armor-We use Envenom.
Lethality- Crit Damage Bonus to Combo Moves=Win.

Tier 4:
Vile Poisons- We do tons of poison damage.
Improved Poisons- See above.

Tier 5:
Fleet Footed- Movement speed increase is very nice.
Cold Blood- Needed for Seal Fate.
Improved Kidney Shot-Most bosses are immune to it.
Quick Recovery-We shouldn't be missing Finishers.

Tier 6:
Seal Fate- Extra Combo Points? Yes please.
Murder- 4% extra damage, well duh we take it.

Tier 7:
Deadly Brew-PvP Talent.
Overkill-Nice for using with Vanish and needed for Mutilate.
Deadened Nerves- 6% of a 20k AoE isn't much.

Tier 8:
Focused Attacks- More Energy please.
Find Weakness- More Damage please.

Tier 9:
Master Poisoner: A Raid debuff and makes Envenom worth using.
Mutilate: Duh.
Turn the Tables: Good but not worth the points.

Tier 10:
Cut to the Chase: Makes our rotation super easy.

Tier 11:
Hunger For Blood: More Damage=Win.

Combat:
Tier 1:
Improved Sinister Strike: We don't use it.
Improved Gouge: PvP talent.
Dual Wield Specialization: Epic damage increase.

Tier 2:
Improved Slice and Dice: Unneeded due to Cut to the Chase.
Deflection: No...just...no.
Precision: 5% hit = win.

Tier 3:
Endurance: Combat only talent since we don't need filler.
Riposte: See Deflection.
Close Quarters Combat: More Crit = win.

Tier 4:
Improved Kick/Sprint: Unneeded.
Lightning Reflexes: Haste=Poison Procs.
Aggression: Doesn't affect our moves.

I will however talk about glyphs briefly. Mutilate and Hunger For Blood are obvious. The variance comes in the 3rd Major slot. There are two choice here, Tricks of the Trade and Fan of Knives.
Tricks of the Trade provides the most single target damage by way of giving your tricks target 4 more seconds of 15% more damage. However, Fan of Knives can be useful in some fights such as Dreamwalker, Heroic Anub25, and perhaps Lich King. Ultimately it is up to you, make your choice based on whether or not you FoK often.

Section II: Hit/Expertise/Crit

There are two main stats a Rogue “needs” and are not up for argument. Hit and Expertise. The question is how much of each stat you need. A small chart of the required ratings will be at the end of this section if you don’t like reading.

As Mutilate you will not have Weapon Expertise(a Combat talent) and so will need all of your expertise to come from gear and maybe gemming.

The required Expertise for attacking from behind(which all rogues do) is 26. That’s Expertise NOT Expertise Rating.

26 Expertise = 214 Expertise Rating

The various Racial abilities that grant expertise do not effect Mutilate Rogues since none of them effect Daggers.

There are 3 separate caps for hit which a rogue may wish to observe, the White Hit Cap, the Poison Hit Cap, and the Yellow Hit cap. For the following numbers I am assuming 5/5 Precision, which is part of the cookie cutter Muti build.

Of these 3 the white hit cap can be safely ignored because it requires a very large amount of hit to reach(722 with no raid buffs/debuffs if you care).

The other 2 caps are actually something rogues need to look at.

The first is the Yellow hit cap. This is the hit cap that causes all of your special attacks NOT including poisons to land without missing.

Yellow Hit Cap=99 Hit Rating with no raid buffs/debuffs.

Now, notice the condition on that statement. In a raid there are 3 possible buffs/debuffs you need to look at. Improved Faerie Fire(a Boomkin Talent), Misery(A Shadow Priest Talent), and Heroic Presence(A Draenei Racial). For the Yellow hit cap we can ignore Improved Faerie Fire and Misery as they only effect spells(which poisons count as). Heroic Presence however reduces the amount of hit needed for the Yellow Hit Cap.

Yellow Hit Cap=66 Hit Rating with Heroic Presence.

That’s the Yellow Hit Cap, now for the Poison Hit Cap.

The Poison Hit Cap is effected by Improved Faerie Fire and Misery since Poisons count as spells. Misery and Improved Faerie Fire DO NOT STACK. So if you have one of the two you’re good.

Poison Hit Cap=315 with no raid buffs/debuffs.
Poison Hit Cap=237 with Improved Faerie Fire OR Misery
Poison Hit Cap=210 with Improved Faerie Fire OR Misery AND Heroic Presence.

As for how much Hit you should actually get…I personally lean towards making sure I have 315, so if I’m missing buffs/debuffs I’m not screwed over. However, making sure I’m above the hit cap has not been an issue for me in quite a while although I have had to worry about Expertise. But its up to preference, if you ALWAYS have one or more of the above buffs/debuffs feel free to aim for less hit, just remember if one of the buffs/debuffs is missing you may be screwed over.

Now for the Chart:

Expertise Cap=26=214 Expertise Rating
Yellow Hit Cap=99 Hit Rating with no raid buffs/debuffs.
Yellow Hit Cap=66 Hit Rating with Heroic Presence.
Poison Hit Cap=315 with no raid buffs/debuffs.
Poison Hit Cap=237 with Improved Faerie Fire OR Misery
Poison Hit Cap=210 with Improved Faerie Fire OR Misery AND Heroic Presence.

There is one other stat we need to look at, assuming we are in ICC10+ gear. If you aren’t that geared feel free to read on but you don’t need to worry about it as much.

The stat we’re going to be looking at is Critical Strike Chance. Why? Because of the cap on it. I don’t understand the Crit Cap very well, so I will refer you all to this handy dandy MMO-Champion thread.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-rogue/critical-strike-cap-faq/

That should hopefully answer any question about Crit Capping.

However, if you need to figure out if you’re crit capping, just use the spreadsheet it tells you what it is for your gear, and if you’re going over it.

Section III: Trinkets and Gear Discussion

This section will be for the discussion of Trinkets and specific pieces of gear that are hard to judge (For the moment the only piece I’m aware of like this is Heartpierce).

To start out with I will say this, Herkuml War Totem is one of the best trinkets a Rogue can get, and it is very much worth grabbing with Frost badges.

I’m going to list the trinkets in a rough list of which is better based on EP values and the list on EJ. This is by no means absolute and you should always consult your spreadsheet for absolute values.
However this should give people a good idea of whats better than what.

1. Whispering Fanged Skull(Heroic)
2. Tiny Abomination in a Jar(Heroic)
3. Herkmul War Totem
4. Death’s Verdict(Heroic)
5. Deathbringer’s Will(Heroic)
6. Tiny Abomination in a Jar
7. Whispering Fanged Skull
8. Comet’s Trail
9. Death’s Verdict
10. Deathbringer’s Will
11. Dark Matter
12. Blood of the Old God
13. Mark of Supremacy
14. Shard of The Crystal Heart

Any trinkets other than those 14 are not worth looking at, especially since several of the above trinkets are easy to obtain.

What about Neddle Encrusted Scorpion you may ask. Well, NES procs ArPen, which is bad for Mutilate. If you have to ask why than look at your Damage Meter’s breakdown of what attacks did how much damage and look at what percent of your damage is not effected by ArPen.

On the subject of Deathbringer’s Will. It has passive Arpen on it which is bad, although the 3 procs: AP, AGI, and Haste are very nice. If no one else wants it you could take it, but I’d let others have it first.

On the subject of any trinket with passive AGI, a AGI Proc, Passive Crit, or a Crit Proc. Be careful of Crit capping and adjust your gear/gemming accordingly if needed.

On the subject of Darkmoon Card Greatness, this was and still is a good trinket. However with the various trinkets out there that are easy to get, it is no longer worth the price.
Any further trinket questions I am perfectly willing to discuss.

Regarding Heartpierce, a Dagger from 25 man Lady Deathwhisper. The proc has been adjusted several times and is worth using in your MH. If you need to check it compared to other pieces of gear please consult your spreadsheet.

Section IV: Gemming Enchanting and Professions

The overriding rule of this section is to check your spreadsheet for the most accurate gemming choices. However I will give some general rules for a Muti rogue to follow.

If you are below the Expertise cap and cannot get more on your gear easily gem Expertise in Red Slots and Blue slots up to the cap, if you still need more Expertise your doing something wrong.

If you are below the Hit Cap and cannot get more of your gear easily gem Hit in Yellow and Blue Sockets up to the poison cap, if you still need more hit you may be doing something wrong.

If you are above both the hit/expertise caps than use the following gem selections.

Red Sockets: AP, maybe AGI depending on gear.
Yellow Sockets: AP/Haste, maybe AGI/Haste depending on ear
Blue Sockets: Put 1 Nightmare tear in a Blue socket that will activate the highest socket bonus, gem the rest of your Blue Sockets with the Red Socket gem.
Meta Gem: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond, the single Nightmare Tear will activate this.

It is possible that a piece of gear may have a VERY good socket bonus, if this is the case it may be viable to use a Purple gem (AGI/STA or AP/STA) in that socket. 99% of the time it’s better to use a Red gem though.

Again, for the most accurate gemming choice please consult your Spreadsheet.

On to Enchants. Enchanting is simple and you generally have one choice per slot that’s viable.

Head: Ebon Blade Head Enchant
Shoulders: AP/Crit Sons of Hodir Shoulder Enchant
Back: 22 AGI or 23 Haste
Chest: 10 Stats
Bracers: 50 AP
Gloves: 44 AP
Legs: 75 AP 22 Crit Leg Patch
Boots: 12 Cri 12 Hit or 32 AP
Belt: Extra Socket and Gem Accordingly

If you have a profession bonus that overwrites one of the enchants listed above, feel free to overwrite it as the profession bonus is likely better.

On the Subject of Professions. For pure DPS you want JC and BS, however all of the professions other than gathering are equally viable. Gathering Professions are subpar for DPS. Engineering is supposedly better than others based on using Saronite Bombs on every CD, but I’m unsure of by how much.

I would suggest unless you are in a very hardcore guild getting the professions that appeal to you the most, or just sticking to the professions that you’ve been using.

Section V: Rotation

The Mutilate Rotation is very simple, especially compared to how it has been in the past.

If SnD is not up, get it up.

If HfB is not up, get it up.

If the above 2 conditions are met, Hit Envenom.

One of the difficult points regarding Mutilate is when to use your finisher, due to Seal Fate’s design. Simply put, if you have 3 or less Combo points hit Mutilate again. If you have 4 or 5 combo points use your finisher.

Envenom is the finisher of choice for Mutilate over Eviscerate. Do not use Rupture unless you need to put a bleed up for HfB. If you do need to use Rupture make it a 1 or 2 point Rupture and than continue your rotation. However, most raid groups will have some class that puts up a bleed, and so you will not need to Rupture.
Slightly more advanced is the timing of Envenom and the Envenom buff. If you want it simple just spam envenom. If you want a little more DPS, wait for the last half second or second of the envenom buff and then hit your next envenom. As far as I know it is not a significant difference if you spam it or wait, however if you need that extra little bit of DPS than you may wish to think about your envenom timing.

No, do not use Rupture, it wastes Envenom buff uptime.


Section VI: FAQ

Q: What speed daggers should I use?

A: Slow Main Hand, Fast Off Hand. However Fast/Fast is equally viable, check your spreadsheet for more information.
Q: What Poisons should I use?
A: DP on the fast weapon, IP on the slow weapon. SP on main hand if you have equal speed daggers.

Section VII: Useful Links

EJs Rogue Guide: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk_updated_3_3_a/
Rogue Spreadsheets: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-combat_mutilate_spreadsheets_updated_3_3_a/


Any questions should be posted in this thread so that all may benefit from questions asked and answers received. Feel free to answer people’s questions if you know the answers. I will update this guide as I can, but don’t expect daily updates or anything.

I hope this guide can assist you, and I appreciate any feedback.

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 1:59am by GodOfMoo

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 9:31am by GodOfMoo

If you have 3 combo points you should always mutilate again for the 5 combo finisher. It may not seem like its more DPS but it 'should' be, and unless you've done very good testing, which is very hard with this scenario due to RNG, you only have anecdotal evidence. Not trying to be an ***, but 5 pt finisher>3 pt finisher.

Why this would be is because Ruthlessness not proccing, and thats just bad luck. 60% chance for your finisher applying a combo point is still a 40% chance for it to not happen.

The other possibility is that Ruthlessness does proc, giving you 1 CP, and than Mutilate not critting, giving you 3 CP total.

I can't think of any other reasons that would be happening, and just means you've been getting some bad luck.

So the ruptureless build is the preferred option at all gear levels? I was under the impression it required certain stats first. Getting ready to dust off my rogue alt and want to play with mutilate some, get a change of pace.


Stillpist- I doubt the effectiveness of quantity over quality; I know on my kitty druid, keeping up high CP abilities but doing it less often is far more effective than simply refreshing them often at low CP, by a loooooooong shot. The thing is, the ability costs you the same amount of energy no matter the CP going in; using it at lower CP not only is damaging in terms of DPE, but I could potentially see it being harmful to your ability to build CP effectively in the first place.

But IANAR (I am not a rogue)

That's true, I picked up that idea way back when Ulduar was the in-thing. So being able to get full 232 now from heroics alone probably lets you pass whatever that theoretical point is pretty quickly.

Haven't looked in depth, but on the surface its off by about 200 DPS compared to Spreadsheet, and I'm inclined to favor the spreadsheet.

I'll look into it a bit more in depth, but I would still use the spreadsheet because its easier to change if needed.

Teddy, I believe it's the fact that most of the time you have another toon there that can put the bleed effect up for you (i.e. Druids, etc.) So you can continue to use things like HfB

I wasn't aware that 2 piece T9 was good...if you're finding it proccing a lot you may want to stay rupture, but I don't remember it being worthwhile.

Not clipping, or overlapping your envenom buff actually adds a ton of dps, i saw at least a 300 or so increase when i learned to stop just spamming envenom when i had the energy. It just requires a little more attention to let the buff drop off before performing another envenom.

A neat trick to keep hunger for blood running in the situation where no other class is providing bleed effects i found. When HfB starts running out, use the single combo point from ruthlessness after a finisher to apply a weak rupture and HfB off the back of that. It minimizes mutilate and combo point wastage.

With regard to slow mainhand and fast offhand, or fast/fast, isn't the overriding consideration the dps of the weps? So, always go with the two highest dps daggers you have? Or is there a subtlety (no pun intended) I'm missing here.

Also, this thread should stay at the top.

Bump for Great Justice!