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Unholy BlightFollow
Unholy Blight used to be one of my favorite talents as a Unholy DK. Basically the reason I respecced to blood at 3.2 because of that awesome nerf. It has now had a bit of a buff but still seems like a waste of a talent point. With the glyph does it increase unholy blights damage by 40% or does it increase death coil by 40%, if the former then not worth it if the later then I guess so
I'm confused by what you mean. UB got a huge nerf last patch (its effect was slashed in half). It is WAY inferior to what it was before (in 3.2) and doesn't even compare to the awesomeness that it was before (I miss the AoE SO much).
But, to answer your question.
DC= 1K damage.
UB= 100 damage over 10 seconds.
UB w/ glyph = 140 damage over 10 seconds.
It just becomes 14% of the DC, basically (the way damage multipliers work, it may be different, but the glyph still royally sucks).
UB does get stronger the more DCs you hit the target with during its duration (which is refreshed) though. But it is still one of the worst 21 point talents in the game, imo.
If you are a DpS in Unholy spec, you might as well take the talent. Don't take the glyph.
If you are a tank in Unholy spec, you probably don't even want the talent (it's, like, 32 TpS for me). I'd say it would be better to put a point into Black Ice or something.
If you are a DpS in Blood Spec, don't go for it. If you are a Frost Tank DK, DON'T go for it.
If you are a Blood tank... I wouldn't. There are MORE than enough good talent choices in the Blood tree to pass them up for UB.
But, to answer your question.
DC= 1K damage.
UB= 100 damage over 10 seconds.
UB w/ glyph = 140 damage over 10 seconds.
It just becomes 14% of the DC, basically (the way damage multipliers work, it may be different, but the glyph still royally sucks).
UB does get stronger the more DCs you hit the target with during its duration (which is refreshed) though. But it is still one of the worst 21 point talents in the game, imo.
If you are a DpS in Unholy spec, you might as well take the talent. Don't take the glyph.
If you are a tank in Unholy spec, you probably don't even want the talent (it's, like, 32 TpS for me). I'd say it would be better to put a point into Black Ice or something.
If you are a DpS in Blood Spec, don't go for it. If you are a Frost Tank DK, DON'T go for it.
If you are a Blood tank... I wouldn't. There are MORE than enough good talent choices in the Blood tree to pass them up for UB.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Quote:
If you are a DpS in Unholy spec, you might as well take the talent. Don't take the glyph.
If you are a tank in Unholy spec, you probably don't even want the talent (it's, like, 32 TpS for me). I'd say it would be better to put a point into Black Ice or something.
If you are a DpS in Blood Spec, don't go for it. If you are a Frost Tank DK, DON'T go for it.
If you are a Blood tank... I wouldn't. There are MORE than enough good talent choices in the Blood tree to pass them up for UB.
If you are a tank in Unholy spec, you probably don't even want the talent (it's, like, 32 TpS for me). I'd say it would be better to put a point into Black Ice or something.
If you are a DpS in Blood Spec, don't go for it. If you are a Frost Tank DK, DON'T go for it.
If you are a Blood tank... I wouldn't. There are MORE than enough good talent choices in the Blood tree to pass them up for UB.
So basically, what you're saying is "don't take it unless you absolutely have to". Good old UB. It did was more fun back when it still made you go zoom.
Anyway, now that the thread's here anyway;
Quote:
UB does get stronger the more DCs you hit the target with during its duration (which is refreshed) though.
From what I have gathered, the DoT "rolls" like a mage's Ignite. Which, from what I have gathered, means that your combat log would show this;
1K Death Coil!
Unholy Blight applied.
Unholy Blight ticks for 100. (DoT A tick #1)
Unholy Blight ticks for 100. (DoT A tick #2)
1K Death Coil!
Unholy Blight ticks for 200. (DoT A tick #3 and DoT B tick #1)
Unholy Blight ticks for 200. (DoT A tick #4 and DoT B tick #2)
Unholy Blight ticks for 100. (DoT B tick #3)
Unholy Blight ticks for 100. (DoT B tick #4)
Unholy Blight fades from target.
Is this correct? Again, from what I've gathered, it seems to be. Though I do remember a guild's mage telling me once that he got a 21K ignite tick on Loatheb. To reach such high amounts, it seems more likely that a "rolling DoT" would mean that a new application would overwrite the old version of the DoT. Aka;
1K Death Coil!
Unholy Blight applied.
Unholy Blight ticks for 100.
Unholy Blight ticks for 100.
1K Death Coil!
Unholy Blight ticks for 200.
Unholy Blight ticks for 200.
Unholy Blight ticks for 200.
1K Death Coil!
Unholy Blight ticks for 300.
Unholy Blight ticks for 300.
Unholy Blight ticks for 300.
Unholy Blight ticks for 300.
Unholy Blight fades from target.
It seems to be pretty clear to me that this is not the way it works, though it would make UB a bit less horrible than it seems. Can anyone actually confirm that the first situation I gave is right?
No, it doesn't double (at least, I do not remember it doing so). I'll try and do some tests later to show the percentage increase. I SEEM to remember it becoming something like 28% (back when it was 20%) with a second DC.
UB is fine for Unholy DpS. But there aren't any solid specs taking it for non-Unholy DpS.
[EDIT]
Looking into it more, I have NO clue how this works. I'm not in the mood to test it right now, though. I've found online reports of both slight-stacking and complete stacking. Some say it will continue at the max damage until UB falls off the target completely and others say its damage will go up and down as the 10 second durations pass, regardless of if the UB debudd falls. [edit2 within the first edit] Meaning that the damage can go down even if your UB was just refreshed, if another 10 second timer ends.
But, even assuming it IS a 10% increase to all DCs over 10 seconds, I wouldn't take it for Blood. There IS an experimental build using it and a perma-ghoul, but I haven't heard of it being that impressive. For Unholy DpS, take it. For tanking, it's optional (but points are probably better placed elsewhere, and 1 in Desolation is better than 1 in UB, since it should be less than 1% of your damage and threat, considering the frequency of RSs).
Edited, Dec 28th 2009 9:30pm by idiggory
Edited, Dec 28th 2009 9:32pm by idiggory
UB is fine for Unholy DpS. But there aren't any solid specs taking it for non-Unholy DpS.
[EDIT]
Looking into it more, I have NO clue how this works. I'm not in the mood to test it right now, though. I've found online reports of both slight-stacking and complete stacking. Some say it will continue at the max damage until UB falls off the target completely and others say its damage will go up and down as the 10 second durations pass, regardless of if the UB debudd falls. [edit2 within the first edit] Meaning that the damage can go down even if your UB was just refreshed, if another 10 second timer ends.
But, even assuming it IS a 10% increase to all DCs over 10 seconds, I wouldn't take it for Blood. There IS an experimental build using it and a perma-ghoul, but I haven't heard of it being that impressive. For Unholy DpS, take it. For tanking, it's optional (but points are probably better placed elsewhere, and 1 in Desolation is better than 1 in UB, since it should be less than 1% of your damage and threat, considering the frequency of RSs).
Edited, Dec 28th 2009 9:30pm by idiggory
Edited, Dec 28th 2009 9:32pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
UB averages about 2-3% dps for just one talent point. yeah the nerf sucks but it's still a decent amount of damage for one talent point. As unholy dps there is almost 0 point in not taking it.
All the parses I read pre 3.3 said 2-3%, and that was at 20%. With the SS buff and the UB nerf, how can it possibly still be 2-3%?
Just checked out the Unholy 3.3 thread. All parses I found posted have UB at 1% or less of DpS.
SHOULD a DpS take it? Probably, since it isn't clear if there is a better alternative. But that's it. It shouldn't be taken by any other tree, and is VERY optional for tanks.
Just checked out the Unholy 3.3 thread. All parses I found posted have UB at 1% or less of DpS.
SHOULD a DpS take it? Probably, since it isn't clear if there is a better alternative. But that's it. It shouldn't be taken by any other tree, and is VERY optional for tanks.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
As a little update, I did some research on it and I figured the best way to explain my findings would be to quote the relevant bits of text.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Unholy_Blight
http://www.wowwiki.com/Ignite
All this makes me guess even more that Unholy Blight's damage changes accordingly to meet exactly 10% (or 14% or whatever floats your glyph) of both Death Coil crits added together - Ignite 'rolling' and being able to stack higher and higher amounts of damage by constantly critting is apperantly a tactic that got nerfed in patch 2.0 and only still occurs as a bug, which makes me, once again, believe that if Unholy Blight does indeed work in exactly the same way as Ignite does, you cannot 'stack' the DOT and the talent effectively uses any *real* effectiveness it might still have had.
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# Patch 3.2.0 (2009-08-04): This talent has been redesigned. It no longer deals damage to nearby targets. Instead, when you deal damage with Death Coil, the target will take periodic damage for 10 seconds equal to 20% of the damage done by Death Coil. This damage accumulates in the same way as Ignite and Deep Wounds.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Unholy_Blight
Quote:
The following examples assume no talents except a full 5 points in Ignite, giving a DoT equal to 40% of the crit damage. In the first example, a Fireball crits for 1500, applying an Ignite that will deal 600 over the next 4 seconds. Assuming no further spell casts and ignoring Fireball's own DoT, the combat log (time-tagged here for convenience) will show as follows:
0:00.00 - Your Fireball crits <Target> for 1500 Fire damage.
0:00.00 - <Target> is afflicted by Ignite
0:02.00 - <Target> suffers 300 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:04.00 - <Target> suffers 300 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Total damage is 2100 as expected (1500*1.4). Next, consider two consecutive crits from Scorch, which has a cast time of 1.5 seconds. The first Scorch crits for 1000 damage, Igniting for 400, and the second crits for 1100, Igniting for 440. The second Scorch lands 1.5 seconds after the first, which is before the first Ignite has a chance to tick. This pushes the damage back, adding both Ignites into a single DoT for 840.
0:00.00 - Your Scorch crits <Target> for 1000 Fire damage.
0:00.00 - <Target> is afflicted by Ignite.
0:01.50 - Your Scorch crits <Target> for 1100 Fire damage.
0:03.50 - <Target> suffers 420 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:05.50 - <Target> suffers 420 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Total damage is 2940 as expected (2100*1.4). Note that the first Ignite did not tick at t = 2.0 as it did with the first example. The second crit restarted the Ignite debuff, with all remaining damage added into the new DoT, and split evenly between the ticks. Now, consider two consecutive Fireball crits, the first critting for 1500, Igniting for 600, and the second critting 3.0 seconds later for 1600, Igniting for 640. Here, Ignite ticks once before the second crit, leaving the remainder to be added into the next Ignite.
0:00.00 - Your Fireball crits <Target> for 1500 Fire damage.
0:00.00 - <Target> is afflicted by Ignite.
0:02.00 - <Target> suffers 300 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:03.00 - Your Fireball crits <Target> for 1600 Fire damage.
0:05.00 - <Target> suffers 470 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:07.00 - <Target> suffers 470 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Total damage is 4340 as expected (3100*1.4). Note that the second crit restarted the Ignite again at t = 3.0, leaving 3 seconds between the first tick and the second. The 300 damage that would have been the second tick of the first Ignite is added to the 640 for the second Ignite, a total DoT of 940 which is split into two ticks of 470.
0:00.00 - Your Fireball crits <Target> for 1500 Fire damage.
0:00.00 - <Target> is afflicted by Ignite
0:02.00 - <Target> suffers 300 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:04.00 - <Target> suffers 300 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Total damage is 2100 as expected (1500*1.4). Next, consider two consecutive crits from Scorch, which has a cast time of 1.5 seconds. The first Scorch crits for 1000 damage, Igniting for 400, and the second crits for 1100, Igniting for 440. The second Scorch lands 1.5 seconds after the first, which is before the first Ignite has a chance to tick. This pushes the damage back, adding both Ignites into a single DoT for 840.
0:00.00 - Your Scorch crits <Target> for 1000 Fire damage.
0:00.00 - <Target> is afflicted by Ignite.
0:01.50 - Your Scorch crits <Target> for 1100 Fire damage.
0:03.50 - <Target> suffers 420 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:05.50 - <Target> suffers 420 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Total damage is 2940 as expected (2100*1.4). Note that the first Ignite did not tick at t = 2.0 as it did with the first example. The second crit restarted the Ignite debuff, with all remaining damage added into the new DoT, and split evenly between the ticks. Now, consider two consecutive Fireball crits, the first critting for 1500, Igniting for 600, and the second critting 3.0 seconds later for 1600, Igniting for 640. Here, Ignite ticks once before the second crit, leaving the remainder to be added into the next Ignite.
0:00.00 - Your Fireball crits <Target> for 1500 Fire damage.
0:00.00 - <Target> is afflicted by Ignite.
0:02.00 - <Target> suffers 300 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:03.00 - Your Fireball crits <Target> for 1600 Fire damage.
0:05.00 - <Target> suffers 470 Fire damage from your Ignite.
0:07.00 - <Target> suffers 470 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Total damage is 4340 as expected (3100*1.4). Note that the second crit restarted the Ignite again at t = 3.0, leaving 3 seconds between the first tick and the second. The 300 damage that would have been the second tick of the first Ignite is added to the 640 for the second Ignite, a total DoT of 940 which is split into two ticks of 470.
Quote:
Now consider the case where two crits land but only one spell's Ignite is applied. A Fireball travel time of 1.0 seconds is assumed.
0:00.00 - Mage begins to cast Fireball.
0:03.00 - Fireball cast complete.
* Spell is a crit, damage calculated at 2000.
* Ignite is calculated at 800
0:03.50 - Mage casts Fireblast (instant, no projectile time)
* Spell is a crit, damage calculated at 1500.
* Ignite is calculated at 600
0:03.50 - Fireblast lands, dealing 1500 damage and applying a 600 Ignite.
0:04.00 - First fireball lands, dealing 2000 damage and applying a 800 Ignite.
* The Ignite from the Fireblast is simply overwritten.
0:06.00 - Ignite ticks for 400.
0:08.00 - Ignite ticks for 400.
Notice that the Fireball Ignite was not able to include the Ignite damage from the Fireblast because it was not present at the time the spell was completed. Also note that the Fireblast Ignite was not able to include the Ignite from the Fireball because it had not yet landed on the target. Thus, the Ignite from Fireball is overwriting the Ignite from Fireblast without including it.
0:00.00 - Mage begins to cast Fireball.
0:03.00 - Fireball cast complete.
* Spell is a crit, damage calculated at 2000.
* Ignite is calculated at 800
0:03.50 - Mage casts Fireblast (instant, no projectile time)
* Spell is a crit, damage calculated at 1500.
* Ignite is calculated at 600
0:03.50 - Fireblast lands, dealing 1500 damage and applying a 600 Ignite.
0:04.00 - First fireball lands, dealing 2000 damage and applying a 800 Ignite.
* The Ignite from the Fireblast is simply overwritten.
0:06.00 - Ignite ticks for 400.
0:08.00 - Ignite ticks for 400.
Notice that the Fireball Ignite was not able to include the Ignite damage from the Fireblast because it was not present at the time the spell was completed. Also note that the Fireblast Ignite was not able to include the Ignite from the Fireball because it had not yet landed on the target. Thus, the Ignite from Fireball is overwriting the Ignite from Fireblast without including it.
Quote:
Prior to Patch 2.0, Ignite damage used to always tick every 2 seconds, regardless of new crits resetting the duration to 4 seconds. This meant that ticks would do damage then also apply to the next Ignite, doing its damage once then "rolling" into the next Ignite. As long as crits happened every 4 seconds, the stack would be refreshed, accumulating more damage for each tick indefinitely.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Ignite
All this makes me guess even more that Unholy Blight's damage changes accordingly to meet exactly 10% (or 14% or whatever floats your glyph) of both Death Coil crits added together - Ignite 'rolling' and being able to stack higher and higher amounts of damage by constantly critting is apperantly a tactic that got nerfed in patch 2.0 and only still occurs as a bug, which makes me, once again, believe that if Unholy Blight does indeed work in exactly the same way as Ignite does, you cannot 'stack' the DOT and the talent effectively uses any *real* effectiveness it might still have had.
Thanks for the research Mozared.
Now if only mine didn't tic for 16 DpS...
Now if only mine didn't tic for 16 DpS...
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
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