Turning again to the collective wisdom of the Druid community...
I had taken a 3 month break from Wow, but after reading about the new LFG tool decided I would give it another go and level my Druid as a tank/healer dual spec (at level 43 right now). I'm very excited about seeing some of the older instances and actually getting to group at this level, but I'm having a little tanking performance anxiety. Most of the guides and posts address higher level Druid tanking, so I wondered if any of you had some advice for my level range? I'm geared, glyphed and specc'ed appropriately for the 40's (I hope :-)), but have been thinking about what sort of abilities I should use...
My completely uneducated guess was to pull with FFF and then spam swipe, and use challenging roar in an emergency. If the healer pulls a single mob, feral charge...but am I missing anything? I wasn't sure how useful growl would be as I've never had to use it soloing :-) If any of you can remember what it was like to tank pre-mangle, I'd sure love some suggestions!
Thanks in advance...
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Spam Maul and Swipe while tabbing around.
Demo Roar after you have all the mobs to reduce incoming damage.
Keep FFF on cooldown. It does a lot of threat.
Growl if you lose aggro.
Pulling with FFF is always good idea. Feral Charge is more fun if you have the room and wont pull extra mobs. FC also works to get to a mob but Growl will bring it to you.
Challenging Roar is a fake taunt. Stuff will start attacking you but it doesn't change a mobs aggro table at all. It only gives you a few seconds to regain control over the mobs.
Demo Roar after you have all the mobs to reduce incoming damage.
Keep FFF on cooldown. It does a lot of threat.
Growl if you lose aggro.
Pulling with FFF is always good idea. Feral Charge is more fun if you have the room and wont pull extra mobs. FC also works to get to a mob but Growl will bring it to you.
Challenging Roar is a fake taunt. Stuff will start attacking you but it doesn't change a mobs aggro table at all. It only gives you a few seconds to regain control over the mobs.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Here's a small tip that it took me a good while to learn: You can "preload" Maul. Target your next pull, press your Maul hotkey, FFF....when the mob frolicks happily into range, he (or she) immediately gets a nice maul to the face and you get an instant boost to threat. It should be noted though that if you are very low on rage or having consistent rage issues, instamaul will make it worse.
I saw this thread and was surprised how similar it sounded to my own experience the other day. As a level 41 bear tank ( http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alexstrasza&n=Nyhan ), I decided to try out the LFG. For the most part, xp was flowing and I was doing great, with no wipes and threat rarely taken away from me... That is until I got randomly queued up for Maraudon (orange). I enter, only to find that their previous tank left the party after a wipe. I buff up, pull some slimes, and have to use all my cd's just to survive the first pull. On the second pull (with only two slimes), I died. I checked out the healer. Mana looked fine, but I checked his spec only to find that he was shadow-spec'd priest. He said he was shadow-spec'd for questing and did not want to re-spec, and that it should not make a difference anyways.
So, basically as I am an anxious young bear tank unsure of myself as the poster is, I'm asking whether I am undergeared and unsuitable to tank this instance, or if a shadow-spec'd priest is unsuitable to heal the instance.
Thanks in advance,
Nyhan
ps* thanks for the advice posted above. I've found that my rotation is identical to that suggested by Horsemouth, but did not know about the maul trick mentioned by Vladrael ... good to know!
*edited to make link work
Edited, Dec 21st 2009 8:50am by Tdimhcs
Edited, Dec 21st 2009 9:03am by Tdimhcs
Edited, Dec 21st 2009 9:03am by Tdimhcs
So, basically as I am an anxious young bear tank unsure of myself as the poster is, I'm asking whether I am undergeared and unsuitable to tank this instance, or if a shadow-spec'd priest is unsuitable to heal the instance.
Thanks in advance,
Nyhan
ps* thanks for the advice posted above. I've found that my rotation is identical to that suggested by Horsemouth, but did not know about the maul trick mentioned by Vladrael ... good to know!
*edited to make link work
Edited, Dec 21st 2009 8:50am by Tdimhcs
Edited, Dec 21st 2009 9:03am by Tdimhcs
Edited, Dec 21st 2009 9:03am by Tdimhcs
The slimes in Mara are a pain for melee, they should probably be kited. The priest was kinda retarded to join a queue for healer while being shadow and then say it's not his fault.
Tdimhcs, Eater of Souls wrote:
... That is until I got randomly queued up for Maraudon (orange). I enter, only to find that their previous tank left the party after a wipe. I buff up, pull some slimes, and have to use all my cd's just to survive the first pull. On the second pull (with only two slimes), I died.
It's better to switch to caster form for the slimes. You can root one and kite the others with your ranged abilities. If one is bearing down on another party member, switch to bear and taunt/FFF it. My little druid has both healed and tanked these guys a few times lately (she's L44 now), I can tell you that anyone that stands toe-to-toe with those little buggers is gonna need a rez when we are done. (No b-rez for the terminally obstinate!)
My problem in there was that my growls were missing quite a bit. Made for some oomey healers and deadish dps.
I love my little druid. She is the most fun I have ever had while levelling!
Thanks for the kiting tips. I've since been back several times and have had no problems with the slimes. I haven't tried going caster form like Trylofer suggested, but it makes sense ... I'll have to keep that in mind should my party have trouble dps'ing them down.
I also have noticed the problem of Growl being resisted in Maraudon, Trylofer. This only happened on one fight against Noxxion, however, and hasn't been a problem since. Maybe just bad luck? One of the party members said it might be because Noxxion is a lvl 46 elite and I was 41 at the time.
I also have noticed the problem of Growl being resisted in Maraudon, Trylofer. This only happened on one fight against Noxxion, however, and hasn't been a problem since. Maybe just bad luck? One of the party members said it might be because Noxxion is a lvl 46 elite and I was 41 at the time.
That would do it. You chance to hit anything starts to REALLY drop off after more than 2 or 3 levels higher than you. Especially with Growl, which is treated as a spell.
If the mob is 3 levels higher, you have a 17% chance to miss with spells. At 4 levels higher, it jumps to 28%. At 5, it's 39%.
If the mob is 3 levels higher, you have a 17% chance to miss with spells. At 4 levels higher, it jumps to 28%. At 5, it's 39%.
Here's another Maul tip for you that I've only become aware of in the last few days:
Do not tab or retarget too quickly! When you press your Maul button, it is not instant -- it queues Maul to trigger on your next auto-attack. If you switch targets before your next auto-attack lands, Maul is canceled and you've done nothing at all to the mob whose face you were about to smash. Your next auto-attack will simply be a normal hit, because Maul will not remain queued once your target has changed.
Do not tab or retarget too quickly! When you press your Maul button, it is not instant -- it queues Maul to trigger on your next auto-attack. If you switch targets before your next auto-attack lands, Maul is canceled and you've done nothing at all to the mob whose face you were about to smash. Your next auto-attack will simply be a normal hit, because Maul will not remain queued once your target has changed.
I've healed as offspec through most of the 5man instances in the game, I think it depends on the group and whther the person in question has some healing knowledge and possibly gear (my shadow priest used to carry around more regen focused items for healing, but with the gear changes and spelldamage adding to both healing and damage that shouldn't be too hard for a caster off-spec). I've known quite a few people who are quite capable of healing with a different spec, but then you also get people who queue as a healer to get into the instance faster and aren't actually very good at filling that role.
I think most of the main tanking tips have been covered, it can also be useful to mark the target you want dps to focus on first, that way you know which mob to generate most threat on, rather than leaving dps to pick a target and having to hold enough threat to keep one mob off a mage and the same on a different mob to keep that off the rogue. If dps are mainly focused on one mob then you just need to build enough to keep the other mobs off the healer.
Druid tanking without mangle is a pita, so that should be a nice plus when you can get hold of that.
I think most of the main tanking tips have been covered, it can also be useful to mark the target you want dps to focus on first, that way you know which mob to generate most threat on, rather than leaving dps to pick a target and having to hold enough threat to keep one mob off a mage and the same on a different mob to keep that off the rogue. If dps are mainly focused on one mob then you just need to build enough to keep the other mobs off the healer.
Druid tanking without mangle is a pita, so that should be a nice plus when you can get hold of that.
Tanking is the same for every class. You have a bunch of buttons and you need to learn how to mash them. The posts above are good - but when it comes down to it - Practice doesn't make perfect, but it does make tanks.
When I started tanking I had to leave a lot of groups. Getting good at it had a lot to do with learning the abilities, rotations, and how to use CDs. But in the end - it was all about time and practice.
A mage needs to learn a rotation. *Stack X until you can do Y. Then do Y. If Z procs... Etc...
A pally (DPS) needs to understand a priority of abilities. *They don't have a pure "rotation"
A Druid (DPS) needs to maintain Savage Roar while keeping up bleeds.
All tanks have a sort of rotation or priority system, but it's completely useless if you don't know the specifics of every single pull. My main tank is a Paly... They run a 969 (Or 696 if you will...) rotation. Learning the rotation is one thing - that's good. Putting it into use is a totally different ball game.
There are times where I'll ask the DPS to hold off because I indend to do a "Body Pull" basically agro'ing by walking at the enemy. This has nothing to do with knowing the rotation. It has everything to do with knowing that using my standard ability will result in missing agro on a mob that is too far away.
Other times I will pull with a taunt. I do this to move the mobs in a certain way - to set them up for my agro. Sometimes it's more about knowing what will happen when the mobs engage...
So - read the above info - it's all good (except for the slimes thing - You need to have Ranged take care of the slimes in Mara... They'll just rip Melee/tanks apart :) - but in the end. Tanking takes a lot of practice. Learn the job. Then do it over and over again until you know it.
When I started tanking I had to leave a lot of groups. Getting good at it had a lot to do with learning the abilities, rotations, and how to use CDs. But in the end - it was all about time and practice.
A mage needs to learn a rotation. *Stack X until you can do Y. Then do Y. If Z procs... Etc...
A pally (DPS) needs to understand a priority of abilities. *They don't have a pure "rotation"
A Druid (DPS) needs to maintain Savage Roar while keeping up bleeds.
All tanks have a sort of rotation or priority system, but it's completely useless if you don't know the specifics of every single pull. My main tank is a Paly... They run a 969 (Or 696 if you will...) rotation. Learning the rotation is one thing - that's good. Putting it into use is a totally different ball game.
There are times where I'll ask the DPS to hold off because I indend to do a "Body Pull" basically agro'ing by walking at the enemy. This has nothing to do with knowing the rotation. It has everything to do with knowing that using my standard ability will result in missing agro on a mob that is too far away.
Other times I will pull with a taunt. I do this to move the mobs in a certain way - to set them up for my agro. Sometimes it's more about knowing what will happen when the mobs engage...
So - read the above info - it's all good (except for the slimes thing - You need to have Ranged take care of the slimes in Mara... They'll just rip Melee/tanks apart :) - but in the end. Tanking takes a lot of practice. Learn the job. Then do it over and over again until you know it.
Borsuk wrote:
Tanking takes a lot of practice. Learn the job. Then do it over and over again until you know it.
To add to what Borsuk said, even when you do know it, keep in mind that any given instance probably won't go the same way every time you do it. Yes, the mobs and instances are the same every time, but the other people in your group are variables to consider. Group composition, gear, play style, ability can all affect how pulls and bossfights end up. So, in the end, being able to react to situations is really important. And like Borsuk said...it takes practice.
azwing wrote:
Borsuk wrote:
Tanking takes a lot of practice. Learn the job. Then do it over and over again until you know it.
To add to what Borsuk said, even when you do know it, keep in mind that any given instance probably won't go the same way every time you do it. Yes, the mobs and instances are the same every time, but the other people in your group are variables to consider. Group composition, gear, play style, ability can all affect how pulls and bossfights end up. So, in the end, being able to react to situations is really important. And like Borsuk said...it takes practice.
This is true.
I have been tanking for a few years.
It becomes instinct, I barely pay attention in most heroics.
I hit my bear tank keybinds to reduce damage when healing on my priest or DK sometimes.
They don't work on the priest but do on the DK as I made the o-shart buttons the same to take advantage of muscle memory.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
All of my main abilities are hotkeyed, which is invaluable when trying to reign in loose mobs. However, I do have several cooldowns not set to hotkeys so that I can avoid using them by mistake when I'd rather not. These include Berserk, Survival Instincts, Challenging Roar and....Barkskin.
With the above in mind, here's another tip for you, courtesy of an "oops" from when I began tanking that I had forgotten about: Make sure that Shadowmeld isn't beside any important ability that you may click on. Once upon a time I had it beside Barkskin because when I am resto, I tend to use the two together during raids. A pull went wrong, adds joined the fray, I aimed for Barskin....and I guess you know what comes next. Fortunately I was in a group of friends who still make fun of me for it, but they didn't get upset =) I took Shadowmeld off of my tanking bars completely after that.
With the above in mind, here's another tip for you, courtesy of an "oops" from when I began tanking that I had forgotten about: Make sure that Shadowmeld isn't beside any important ability that you may click on. Once upon a time I had it beside Barkskin because when I am resto, I tend to use the two together during raids. A pull went wrong, adds joined the fray, I aimed for Barskin....and I guess you know what comes next. Fortunately I was in a group of friends who still make fun of me for it, but they didn't get upset =) I took Shadowmeld off of my tanking bars completely after that.
I have /cancelform set to shift-c and Barkskin set to shift-x.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
This is more of a QQ post, as I'm doing most if not all of what has been suggested in this thread. My druid tank is my alt, sitting at a little over 4900 gearscore...so not awesome, but no lightweight either.
I'm finding that I dread doing my daily random on her because of the way dps act in heroics. I'm losing threat a lot, either because the warrior charges before I touch the mobs, or a dps focuses some other mob than the one I marked, etc. Yes I will let them die or vote to kick, but then of course I get accused of being a bad tank. Party chat is not the most convenient place to explain things, so I end up leaving a lot of groups out of frustration.
After this morning's HoS...where I had both of the above "bad dps behaviors" happened, the healer says to me "You're not a prot pally, learn to live with it...everyone aoes now." I suppose that's true...but comon...is it so hard to cast ONE focus attack after the tank hits the mobs and then go aoe crazy? If that happens, I rarely lose threat.
I'm going to post my armory just because...if any of you have advice about improving things that I can get at easily. Keep in mind that it's an alt, so has not run a lot of 10CC or Ulduar. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kul+Tiras&cn=Poisonivee
I guess what wierds me out the most is that tanks are relatively rare. DPS sit in the LFD tool sometime up to 20 minutes to get a group, where for tanks its virtually instant. And they can't show a little respect? I would think eventually this would lead to longer cues as the number of tanks willing to put up with it decreases.
Anyway, how do you guys deal w/ this other that letting the idiot die and telling the rest of the group "too bad."
I'm finding that I dread doing my daily random on her because of the way dps act in heroics. I'm losing threat a lot, either because the warrior charges before I touch the mobs, or a dps focuses some other mob than the one I marked, etc. Yes I will let them die or vote to kick, but then of course I get accused of being a bad tank. Party chat is not the most convenient place to explain things, so I end up leaving a lot of groups out of frustration.
After this morning's HoS...where I had both of the above "bad dps behaviors" happened, the healer says to me "You're not a prot pally, learn to live with it...everyone aoes now." I suppose that's true...but comon...is it so hard to cast ONE focus attack after the tank hits the mobs and then go aoe crazy? If that happens, I rarely lose threat.
I'm going to post my armory just because...if any of you have advice about improving things that I can get at easily. Keep in mind that it's an alt, so has not run a lot of 10CC or Ulduar. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kul+Tiras&cn=Poisonivee
I guess what wierds me out the most is that tanks are relatively rare. DPS sit in the LFD tool sometime up to 20 minutes to get a group, where for tanks its virtually instant. And they can't show a little respect? I would think eventually this would lead to longer cues as the number of tanks willing to put up with it decreases.
Anyway, how do you guys deal w/ this other that letting the idiot die and telling the rest of the group "too bad."
If it's not Heroic HoR or Heroic Pit/Forge with an undergeared healer, tank trash with cat gear on. It's fun pulling 4k DPS on AoE pulls with Berserk+Mangle (3 mobs), or swipe + maul-tabbing (4+ or when berserk is on CD). For groups of two, I let glyph of maul and swipe filler keep threat on the second target. It's very rare for someone to pull threat off me, although a 5600ish GS arcane mage seemed to like the taste of the dirt in Heroic FoS. His wife was the healer, though, so she was laughing her butt off in /p. I can only imagine what she was saying to him in their house.
I use cat gear for most heroics as well.
HoR is the exception.
The 50% crit, 50% dodge, a$$ loads of ArP and the armor that comes with good gear make it win.
Granted people will question the ~30k health pool but the other stats more than make up for it as I dodge almost everything, SD is always up and the inflated AP make it better.
I still have rage issues sometimes and have to sit to eat a crit. If I was in my tank gear it would be serious issue as I simply wouldn't take enough damage to get any rage.
Also move on to the next pack when the current is around 30% health, they will die 9 times out 10 before they shift off of you. This will help you get a head start on the next group. Plus in heroics are your healers DPSing?
Heroics are about DPS and gogogo.
I did a 15 minute Nexus today and one of the DPS shat bricks.
I felt bad for him.
HoR is the exception.
The 50% crit, 50% dodge, a$$ loads of ArP and the armor that comes with good gear make it win.
Granted people will question the ~30k health pool but the other stats more than make up for it as I dodge almost everything, SD is always up and the inflated AP make it better.
I still have rage issues sometimes and have to sit to eat a crit. If I was in my tank gear it would be serious issue as I simply wouldn't take enough damage to get any rage.
Also move on to the next pack when the current is around 30% health, they will die 9 times out 10 before they shift off of you. This will help you get a head start on the next group. Plus in heroics are your healers DPSing?
Heroics are about DPS and gogogo.
I did a 15 minute Nexus today and one of the DPS shat bricks.
I felt bad for him.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
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