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Icy touch?Follow
3 posts
Quick question for anyone, icy touch is based off spell power or a DK's attack power? and like wise question for howling blast.
I'm about 99.99% sure it's based off of either attack power or strength.
Spell power, not so much.
Spell power, not so much.
I looked up wowhead about that at one point. While the opinions about it are many, it seems fairly certain that while spellpower does increase the use of a DK's spells, you're better off always going for attack power/strength.
No Death Knight abilities are ever affected by spell power.
Death Knights are closer to hunters in terms of the way our "spells" work than we are, to say, warlocks. Hunters use a coefficient of their ranged attack power to determine how hard arcane shot hits. Icy Touch, Death Coil, DnD, etc. use a coefficient of our melee attack power to determine how hard these "spells" hit.
Death Knights are closer to hunters in terms of the way our "spells" work than we are, to say, warlocks. Hunters use a coefficient of their ranged attack power to determine how hard arcane shot hits. Icy Touch, Death Coil, DnD, etc. use a coefficient of our melee attack power to determine how hard these "spells" hit.
Have you actually tested this?
While there doesn't seem a doubt about the fact that strength and AP > spellpower in terms of gearing, I've seen multiple people claim that spellpower *does* in fact increase damage/healing on spells like Icy Touch and Death Coil, by however a small amount that may be.
While there doesn't seem a doubt about the fact that strength and AP > spellpower in terms of gearing, I've seen multiple people claim that spellpower *does* in fact increase damage/healing on spells like Icy Touch and Death Coil, by however a small amount that may be.
While Icy Touch is considered a Frost magic spell and as such it probably does benefit from spell power, the general conclusion is that spell power ONLY buffs spells whereas attack power (from strength, for instance) buffs melee damage as well and therefore is preferred over spell power.
I have been unable to find the actual math on Icy Touch's damage.
Edit: I stumbled across this site which holds some coefficients for the various Death Knight spells. Apparently all of them use attack power as coefficient rather than spell power and as such shouldn't receive any benefits from the latter.
I have been unable to find the actual math on Icy Touch's damage.
Edit: I stumbled across this site which holds some coefficients for the various Death Knight spells. Apparently all of them use attack power as coefficient rather than spell power and as such shouldn't receive any benefits from the latter.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
3 posts
Well ty for the help, Just to experiment I put in a couple spell power gems and I personally saw that my howling blast would hit for 6k, my AP is pretty high too tho. But if the spells are based off AP then I'll just switch those gems back to STR.
This... wasn't common knowledge?
The only caster stat a DK should ever have on their gear, for any reason, is Spell Pen for certain PvP builds. And I'm not sure that's even still a normal occurrence, or if it even still benefits them.
The only caster stat a DK should ever have on their gear, for any reason, is Spell Pen for certain PvP builds. And I'm not sure that's even still a normal occurrence, or if it even still benefits them.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Like I said and this thread has proven, what is common knowledge is that a DK should never gear for spellpower - whether spellpower does affect DK abilities or not is something I still haven't seen a definite 'no' or 'yes' to. Mazra's link was a guess at best.
As for Spell Pen; it decreases enemy spell resistances - which is why all non-blood DK's want a set amount on their gear (I believe it was 80 or 130) to negate the effect of Mark of the Wild.
As for Spell Pen; it decreases enemy spell resistances - which is why all non-blood DK's want a set amount on their gear (I believe it was 80 or 130) to negate the effect of Mark of the Wild.
Quote:
Like I said and this thread has proven, what is common knowledge is that a DK should never gear for spellpower - whether spellpower does affect DK abilities or not is something I still haven't seen a definite 'no' or 'yes' to. Mazra's link was a guess at best.
As for Spell Pen; it decreases enemy spell resistances - which is why all non-blood DK's want a set amount on their gear (I believe it was 80 or 130) to negate the effect of Mark of the Wild.
As for Spell Pen; it decreases enemy spell resistances - which is why all non-blood DK's want a set amount on their gear (I believe it was 80 or 130) to negate the effect of Mark of the Wild.
Spell Power has been stated, by Blizz, to have no effect on DK spells. Multiple tests have been conducted to test this. It doesn't do anything--the abilities only have an AP modifier, no SP one. It's a pain to find these tests, because it was quite a while ago. I'm not gonna find them; do so yourself if you can't take our word for it.
And I've never heard of a top end DK in PvE content getting spell pen. Why? Because that would be a huge loss of DpS from the slot you are using Pally gear (if they even use spell pen or Mage rings/trinkets) in to get, or a huge sacrifice with gems. Spell pen is an extremely situational PvP talent, as it stands now, that has an effect in PvE that isn't worth it (like Resil).
[EDIT]
It's also easy to see why Blizz would do it this way. They already had to create 3 types of plate pre Wrath--Caster, Tank and Melee. Making DKs benefit by caster stats would require them to make a whole new set just for DKs that had caster and melee stats.
Edited, Nov 11th 2009 8:08am by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
3 posts
Well cool, cause apparently we're all wrong. I have full gald gear and I switch my gems like I perviously stated. I noticed that all my frost spells, (Icy touch, Howling Blast, and even FS) were hitting significantly lower for example my Howling Blast with my spell power gems would normally hit up to at least 2.5k minimum always, then I switched back over to my STR and AP gems, and my damage dropped down to 1.7 - 1.8k, Icy touch for 600 when it used to be 1k, and FS hitting main-hand for 5k and off-hand 3k and now I'd be lucky to hit up to even 3k.
Switching back over to STR screwed me. I understand parry rating is much needed and more AP is always better, but I hit like a truck with frost spells so I like my spec. I'm good on looking up test on this I just tested it on my own DK, on the newest patch, SP plays a roll in your frost and even Death Coil spells, For sure.
Switching back over to STR screwed me. I understand parry rating is much needed and more AP is always better, but I hit like a truck with frost spells so I like my spec. I'm good on looking up test on this I just tested it on my own DK, on the newest patch, SP plays a roll in your frost and even Death Coil spells, For sure.
Quote:
Well cool, cause apparently we're all wrong. I have full gald gear and I switch my gems like I perviously stated. I noticed that all my frost spells, (Icy touch, Howling Blast, and even FS) were hitting significantly lower for example my Howling Blast with my spell power gems would normally hit up to at least 2.5k minimum always, then I switched back over to my STR and AP gems, and my damage dropped down to 1.7 - 1.8k, Icy touch for 600 when it used to be 1k, and FS hitting main-hand for 5k and off-hand 3k and now I'd be lucky to hit up to even 3k.
Switching back over to STR screwed me. I understand parry rating is much needed and more AP is always better, but I hit like a truck with frost spells so I like my spec. I'm good on looking up test on this I just tested it on my own DK, on the newest patch, SP plays a roll in your frost and even Death Coil spells, For sure.
Switching back over to STR screwed me. I understand parry rating is much needed and more AP is always better, but I hit like a truck with frost spells so I like my spec. I'm good on looking up test on this I just tested it on my own DK, on the newest patch, SP plays a roll in your frost and even Death Coil spells, For sure.
Yeah... No.
I just did [EDIT] a test [/EDIT] on a level 60 dummy:
1. 50 unresisted ITs with no gear, no spec, no presence
2. 50 unresisted ITs with no gear, no spec, no presence, Flask of Frost Wyrm (+125 Spell Power).
I didn't bother with an AP test. I didn't feel like paying for the consumable, and the AP coefficients are readably available. I'm assuming I don't need to prove that AP influences damage.
Average damage for test 1:
284 292 300 287
284 287 292 290
285 296 292 294
302 300 290 294
300 285 286 292
299 292 296 288
297 292 290 291
292 294 294 297
285 297 296 296
300 298 290 288
294 295 286 289
296 292 287 297
284 295
==
3802 (line 1)
3815 (line 2)
3499 (line 3)
3503 (line 4)
===14619/50 ===== 292.38 average IT damage without SP.
Average damage for test 2:
293 289 293 285
291 298 298 299
289 287 288 299
301 287 292 286
294 293 295 292
291 298 292 288
294 288 295 284
288 290 300 291
302 292 285 288
302 296 285 299
285 300 285 292
287 293 292 285
289 289
==
3806
3800
3500
3488
===14594/50 ===== 291.88 average IT damage with 125 SP.
The SP got LESS damage in my test (though I don't think that actually means something. It is WELL within a standard deviation).
Spell Power does NOTHING. And I just paid for a respec, 6 glyphs and an expensive raiding pot to prove that...
[EDIT= Accidentally typed 135 SP instead of 125 for flask in bottom data report.]
Edited, Nov 11th 2009 12:43pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
That settles it then, I guess. I won't go so far as to complain about the fact that you only tried IT and not for FS and HB - If SP does nothing on IT chances are slim it would do anything for other spells. It's not that I don't want to take the word of the Alla people for it, it's just that up to now I've never seen anybody actually deliver solid proof that spellpower does nothing at all for DK's - it's all been things "indicating that...".
Yes, that's true. When I said "all non-blood DK's" I'm meant all PvPing non-blood DK's. You do not need spell penetration for PvE unless you want to top meters on Rage Winterchill in a frost spec. As for PvP, I just looked it up; 75 spell penetration counters Mark of the Wild and high-end (unholy) DK's might want to go for ~130 to also counter spells like Shadow Protection. This means the +35 spell penetration on cloak combined with two blue +20 gems is good enough for the average DK which fortunately enough works itself out seeing as DK's don't really have a proper choice in cloak enchants and have 2 blue slots on their arena set.
Quote:
And I've never heard of a top end DK in PvE content getting spell pen. Why? Because that would be a huge loss of DpS from the slot you are using Pally gear (if they even use spell pen or Mage rings/trinkets) in to get, or a huge sacrifice with gems. Spell pen is an extremely situational PvP talent, as it stands now, that has an effect in PvE that isn't worth it (like Resil).
Yes, that's true. When I said "all non-blood DK's" I'm meant all PvPing non-blood DK's. You do not need spell penetration for PvE unless you want to top meters on Rage Winterchill in a frost spec. As for PvP, I just looked it up; 75 spell penetration counters Mark of the Wild and high-end (unholy) DK's might want to go for ~130 to also counter spells like Shadow Protection. This means the +35 spell penetration on cloak combined with two blue +20 gems is good enough for the average DK which fortunately enough works itself out seeing as DK's don't really have a proper choice in cloak enchants and have 2 blue slots on their arena set.
Quote:
Yes, that's true. When I said "all non-blood DK's" I'm meant all PvPing non-blood DK's. You do not need spell penetration for PvE unless you want to top meters on Rage Winterchill in a frost spec. As for PvP, I just looked it up; 75 spell penetration counters Mark of the Wild and high-end (unholy) DK's might want to go for ~130 to also counter spells like Shadow Protection. This means the +35 spell penetration on cloak combined with two blue +20 gems is good enough for the average DK which fortunately enough works itself out seeing as DK's don't really have a proper choice in cloak enchants and have 2 blue slots on their arena set.
Yeah, I agree with the PvP DKs using Spell Pen. Just that they don't use much. Like you said, two gems is good enough (and many may not bother in favor of gems for pure force).
[EDIT]
And I would have tested FS and HB, but I had no patience to generate RP or wait 5 seconds each time to cast (even though it would be the same casts per 10 seconds as IT).
Edited, Nov 11th 2009 1:20pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
idiggory, thanks for going through all that to prove it.
The respec was good, though, because once you go Frost...
The respec was good, though, because once you go Frost...
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Quote:
No Death Knight abilities are ever affected by spell power.
Iddigory, thanks for going through a test to prove what most DKs already know. I am sure that you tested just to show concrete fact even though you knew better. I will be sure to link that test next time someone mentions spell-power and DK abilities.
Just trying to help raise the standards of common knowledge.^^
It wasn't exactly a complicated thing to test. If it was, I probably wouldn't have bothered. Plus, it was relevant to my own class. So even though I was 99.99% sure of it, it doesn't hurt to look into it for my own sake as well.
It wasn't exactly a complicated thing to test. If it was, I probably wouldn't have bothered. Plus, it was relevant to my own class. So even though I was 99.99% sure of it, it doesn't hurt to look into it for my own sake as well.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
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