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Expansion and other stuffFollow

#1 Oct 17 2009 at 8:21 PM Rating: Default
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352 posts
Hey guys, not sure if this is crystal ball stuff about the expansion coming up but I was reading up last night on some of the changes to our class.

I've noticed now aspect of the hawk with the glyph slotted is great for dps and is great for complete mana drain.
So aspect of the viper wins out but I lose 40% dps, nice one.

But what I read last night is we wont be using mana after the expansion so that problem now goes away, correct?
So int. I aquire from now is only good until 80 and after the expansion is useless right, I read something about focus?
Will our mana pool transfer over to this?
Surely they cant just take that from us.

Also I've been scouring the AH looking at gear for when I hit 80, is there any point in spending a small nations wealth of my gold on gear and so forth with the expansion coming?
I know all my BT gear on my mage back in BC went out the door when WotLK came out, it was only good for a level or two so I'am thinking this might be the case again.

But no one knows when the expansion is coming so I dont want to shoot myself in the foot thier either.

Lastly I read on one of the threads here about a macro that combines Kill Command with my main shots like Kill Shot, Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot etc... is it possible to have a look somewhere at what that macro is as I'd like to give it a go.
Another macro I saw was to put Hunters Mark on your pet if there are other hunters in your group, that way you at least get the benefit of it before they do.
Again I cant write amacro to save myself so if I could be pointed in the right direction there that would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the help :)
#2 Oct 20 2009 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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352 posts
Ok, sorry about the double post but no one has had a bite at this one yet.
Did I not ask the right questions to get any help or is what I asked to basic to reply to?
My other posts havent been a problem with plenty of help and feedback so I know we have a helpful and active community out there.
So hopefully someone might be able to help out with what I asked.
Thanks.
#3 Oct 21 2009 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
I wouldn't worry about the expansion, play for today.
I got the crafted mail set (Swiftarrow?) to start out, all blue will get you in most Heriocs. Work on what you can as you go along. The list pointed to in the Pre-raid FAQ is also a good guide to start with. Hunter-Rhok is the name, and has links to all the suggestions.
#4 Oct 21 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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255 posts
RodStorm wrote:
I've noticed now aspect of the hawk with the glyph slotted is great for dps and is great for complete mana drain.
So aspect of the viper wins out but I lose 40% dps, nice one.


Yup, you will need mana potions or some other type of mana regen to counter-act this. It's part of the class.

RodStorm wrote:
But what I read last night is we wont be using mana after the expansion so that problem now goes away, correct?
So int. I aquire from now is only good until 80 and after the expansion is useless right, I read something about focus?
Will our mana pool transfer over to this?
Surely they cant just take that from us.


This is crystal ball stuff. Since they are switching us back to focus (like beta) I am not sure how they are going to re-itemize. Will intelligence affect this? My initial guess is no, but if they still want an item to blanket different classes then they would have to figure out some alternative. Maybe they will just leave the mana/focus bit alone and let it still buff our AP through talents.

RodStorm wrote:

I know all my BT gear on my mage back in BC went out the door when WotLK came out, it was only good for a level or two so I'am thinking this might be the case again.


Hrm, I raided heavily in BC and my BT/KT gear actually ran me through 75+. Since the supposed level cap is only going up 5 levels, I think end-game gear will do you well for a while. (That and the fact they are making it a lazy-man's game. You don't need to be hard core to have good items anymore)

RodStorm wrote:

Lastly I read on one of the threads here about a macro that combines Kill Command with my main shots like Kill Shot, Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot etc... is it possible to have a look somewhere at what that macro is as I'd like to give it a go.
Another macro I saw was to put Hunters Mark on your pet if there are other hunters in your group, that way you at least get the benefit of it before they do.
Again I cant write amacro to save myself so if I could be pointed in the right direction there that would be much appreciated.


As for shot macros... GET RID OF THEM! You can macro some of the abilities to one shot type, but if you are doing a /castsequence then you are fail. You can find many different references for macros, I normally use Wowikki to look up all the different commands.
#5 Oct 21 2009 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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352 posts
Thanks Browning, I ended up getting macro's that tie Kill Command in with my shots, thats all I was really after.
So /castsequence stuff because I actually do want to play the game :)
I've been getting lvl80 gear as best I can from the AH so with the right gems/enchants it will hopefully last up to 85.
As for mana I use Aspect of the Viper and take the dps loss.
I tried switching between it and Aspect of the Hawk during a fight but it got a bit out of hand at times.
My int. is still just a tad over half my health points total and while Viper is on its all good, but for raiding with raid buffs Hawk would certainly be the go.
Thanks for the help guys.
#6 Oct 22 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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255 posts
Red, you really do need to get the hang of swapping aspect during the fight. With Viper up, you shouldn't ever be out of a max mana situation, which means you are loosing DPS for no reason. If you feel like it's burdensome, it is. It's just one of the things you have to get used to to play a hunter. Start aspect swapping on trash pulls to get used to it, hell to get yourself to really be accustomed to it try running an instance with a good tank/healer where they don't stop pulling until boss fights. Swap aspects between each different trash pull. You will find that you get used to checking your mana and aspect swapping becomes as natural as waiting for shot CD's. If you always run in viper, I know a lot of groups will just kick you without any explanation.
#7 Oct 23 2009 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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352 posts
Thanks Browning, you seem to be my mentor lately :)
I have been swapping the aspects around in battle of late to see how I go.
It takes a bit of practice but it seems to be a bit more fluent now.
When I hit 80 and group up I'am sure it'll be beneficial to my dps output.
I'll swap to Survival from BM then and see how that goes.
Thanks again for the help mate.
#8 Oct 23 2009 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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255 posts
NP Red, that is what the threads are for!
#9 Oct 25 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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352 posts
Just as a footnote to the mana issue,I use MikScrollingBattleText as my combat text and have set my low mana warning to 30%.
So what this means is I can use Dragonhawk until 30%, the warning pops up and I go back to Viper.
No mana issues, no pots, no running out of mana.....to easy.
But what I wanted to know is does the Glyph of the Hawk cover Dragonhawk as well?

On a seperate issue I read on the EJ website that the hit cap for a Dranei hunter is 230, just wanted to confirm that.
Also are there any other caps I should be looking at?
I know on my Shammy I had to level the hit and expertise caps to be efficent.

Lastly Major Glyph's, I've gone with EJ and am using Glyph of the Hawk, Glyph of Killshot and at 80 will get Glyph of Beastial Wrath.
Does that sound about right for a BM hunter?
They havent updated thier webpage for some time so not sure how relevant some of the info still is so I thought I'd ask what is preferred now.

Thanks again for the help guys, it only makes me a better player :)

Edited, Oct 26th 2009 1:36am by RodStorm
#10 Oct 26 2009 at 6:24 AM Rating: Good
Do you get IAotH procs with dragonhawk? If so, I'd wager that the glyph works fine.
#11 Oct 26 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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255 posts
RodStorm wrote:
But what I wanted to know is does the Glyph of the Hawk cover Dragonhawk as well?


Yes, Like Norell stated, since you get the same proc using Hawk or Dragonhawk(it just combines the Monkey and Hawk bonuses) this gylph will work.

RodStorm wrote:
On a seperate issue I read on the EJ website that the hit cap for a Dranei hunter is 230, just wanted to confirm that.
Also are there any other caps I should be looking at?
I know on my Shammy I had to level the hit and expertise caps to be efficent.


The hit cap for Dranei is this (at least I think 230 = 7% hit). It is because of their racial bonus that grants a 1% hit bonus for melee and hunters. Every raiding hunter can also have this cap as there is a low chance to not have a Dranei is your group.

I don't really know of any other "caps". The MM spec right now relies on ArP, but I haven't researched to see what type of numbers those are since I am specced Sv/BM right now.

RodStorm wrote:
Lastly Major Glyph's, I've gone with EJ and am using Glyph of the Hawk, Glyph of Killshot and at 80 will get Glyph of Beastial Wrath.
Does that sound about right for a BM hunter?


I haven't seen a lot of theorycraft for the BM glyphs lately either. There were many arguments about Steady, Kill and Beastial. I guess that if you are not yet 80 I would probably focus on Steady and Bestial glyphs right now. Steady is extra damage when you have Serpent Sting up, and if you have the CD reducing talents for Bestial then that glyph = more BIGREDKITTY time. Maybe I'll try to run some numbers on glyph set-ups later this week.....
#12 Oct 26 2009 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
34 posts
What about Serpent Sting glyph? Many builds I see have this. The thing I don't understand though, it just lengthens your debuff time, not increases damage. How is this beneficial? Does it really affect your mana that much? I would assume swapping it out for Hawk or some other DPS glyph would be preferred.
#13 Oct 27 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
MossyOakCamo wrote:
What about Serpent Sting glyph? Many builds I see have this. The thing I don't understand though, it just lengthens your debuff time, not increases damage. How is this beneficial? Does it really affect your mana that much? I would assume swapping it out for Hawk or some other DPS glyph would be preferred.


Think of it as fewer GCDs spent casting sting, which equals more GCDs spent on high dps shots. Whether or not it's an optimal glyph for any build I couldn't say.

Edited, Oct 27th 2009 1:21pm by Norellicus
#14 Oct 27 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,590 posts
Overlord Norellicus wrote:
MossyOakCamo wrote:
What about Serpent Sting glyph? Many builds I see have this. The thing I don't understand though, it just lengthens your debuff time, not increases damage. How is this beneficial? Does it really affect your mana that much? I would assume swapping it out for Hawk or some other DPS glyph would be preferred.


Think of it as fewer GCDs spent casting sting, which equals more GCDs spent on high dps shots. Whether or not it's an optimal glyph for any build I couldn't say.


I know it'll be a nice boost to Chimera Shot damage for my MM hunter when I get around to pulling it out of the mail and equipping it. :)
#15 Oct 27 2009 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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352 posts
Hey guys, just a quick question about dual speccing for Hunters.
Dual spec mainly means access to a new talent tree and thats pretty much it from what I can see.
Theres no change of gear/stats required as such.
So being BM I can dual spec to SV and not have to change any gear at all and my main stats of AP and Agil. are the same.
On my Shammy going from Enhance to Elemental if a full gear change.
Thanks :)
#16 Oct 28 2009 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
What are you asking, exactly? Questions usually don't come in the form of bullet-point statements.
#17 Oct 28 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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255 posts
RodStorm wrote:
Hey guys, just a quick question about dual speccing for Hunters.
Dual spec mainly means access to a new talent tree and thats pretty much it from what I can see.
Theres no change of gear/stats required as such.
So being BM I can dual spec to SV and not have to change any gear at all and my main stats of AP and Agil. are the same.
On my Shammy going from Enhance to Elemental if a full gear change.
Thanks :)


Yes, this is a weird question format...

DS for hunters is limited in it's "Variety" because we are a pure DPS class. Some examples of having gear changes are...
having a PvP spec
having a ArP MM spec and any other spec

Some people (me included) have a BM spec just to tame exotic pets.

So, actually having a DS for a hunter isn't a real need, unless he is your main character.
#18 Oct 28 2009 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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352 posts
Hey guys,
Sorry for the confusion, what I was trying to say didnt come out right.
As an example I'll use my Shammy again.
Shes Enhancement but I also dual spec her to Elemental when need be for raid boss fights like last boss in Naxx etc.
So I have one set of gear for Enhancement spec and one set of gear for Elemental as I cant wear the same gear for both.
Also Elemental needs more mana so I have to gear towards that as well.
That what I was trying to say about BM and SV specs.
Can I use the same gear for both or does one have different gear requirements over the other?
I'am assuming no but as I havent raided with her yet I dont know.
At 80 SV looks the spec to go for instances/raids so I'll change through dual spec to that one, I just need to know is there any real changes I need to make apart from the talent tree for this?
I'am going to make my Hunter my main now so really want to come to grips with what I'am doing.
Thanks again for the help.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 1:19am by RodStorm
#19 Oct 29 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
There's not really any differing gear for most hunter specs...once you get to a certain level of gear you can prioritize certain stats in your gems but it's nothing like a Shaman where a piece that helps Enhancement/Survival is actually terrible for Elemental/Beastmastery or vice versa.

At least, I don't think there is. The buffing of the pet happens via your talents and those rely on your stats being buffed first.
#20 Oct 29 2009 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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352 posts
Thanks mate, thats what I was after :)
I'am looking at changing to SV very soon so I wanted to checkout some of you guys in the armoury to see what you did with your talent trees and stats. But Browningguns and Ranawaran didnt work out so can I get your hunter names?
I did find this build,
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=3&tal=500000000000000000000000000353000000000000000000000005000032500033330533135001331
and
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#coZ0eVoooZx0ci0cIhxdAhsu:NbiMmzand
They look similar so are these relatively standard pve builds?
Wyvern Sting seems important for raids so that needs to be there but I have seen some SV builds without it.
Also SV favors Agility over AP I read somewhere, is that true?
I also picked up an Avools Sword of Jin, everywhere I read its a Rogues sword but to me the stats look good.
Is it worth buying one as well and dual wielding them until I find something better in Naxx etc?
Its an expensive sword so dont want to have it bound if I dont need it to be.
Thanks guys.

Edited, Oct 30th 2009 3:09am by RodStorm
#21 Oct 30 2009 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
Your melee weapons are for stats, damage means little. Compare stats and availible enchants for 2 1-handed vs a 2 handed. Almost every case favors 2-hander.
#22 Oct 30 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
Rod- To answer a few of your points...

Wyvern Sting is a utility spell. Doesn't really improve DPS in any meaningful way. Take if you want for pvp or guild wants you to have it for some reason, but not necessary.

I'm pretty sure all specs favor Agility until you reach the point where Armor Penetration becomes king (requires fairly high quality and specific gear though). You take a slight loss in raw ap but make up for it in crit gains.

I'd never spend inordinate amounts of money on a weapon unless I was severely lacking in that area and absolutely needed it in order to even be able to get into heroics/raids or something. Too many better options that drop in raids themselves, and then that money is effectively down the tubes. But yes, generally 2h weapons will serve you better, as they have more weighted stat distribution. 1h purposefully avoids heavy stat distribution because anyone who DWs them is already getting a boost simply by carrying/swinging two separate weapons with a dps value on them.
#23 Oct 30 2009 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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255 posts
Well my access to links at work are limited, but I took a quick glance at one of the specs you linked before coming here, hopefully I can remember it all....

RodStorm wrote:

I did find this build,
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=3&tal=500000000000000000000000000353000000000000000000000005000032500033330533135001331
and
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#coZ0eVoooZx0ci0cIhxdAhsu:NbiMmzand
They look similar so are these relatively standard pve builds?
Wyvern Sting seems important for raids so that needs to be there but I have seen some SV builds without it.


Well from what I remember each build has something that helped compensate for what I am assuming is a lack of gear. One took IAofH to increase his haste (white damage) at the loss of 5/5 Mortal Shots leading to Aimed Shot.

EDIT: The other build took Focused Aim to compensate for lack of hit rating.

For the MM tree with survival I guess I would take...
5/5 Lethal Shots
3/3 Careful Aim 5/5 Mortal
1/2 Go For the Throat 1/1 Aimed Shot

And the rest go into Survival. The talent Wyvern Sting isn't in itself useful for raiding but the talent it unlocks. Noxious Stings is why raiders take Wyvern, for the extra 3% damage to targets who will have a serpent sting on them. Survival is pretty standard but I guess with my 55 points I go for 2/3 Expose Weakness and 2/3 Hunting Party. I only put 2/3 EW since with survival you are running at 50ish% crit rating+ in raids.

RodStorm wrote:

Also SV favors Agility over AP I read somewhere, is that true?


For SV, you will take Agility. I haven't seen an ArP build for Survival yet, that is a Marks build. Agility gives you AP, Crit and armor and dodge (which aren't really a factor in PvE).

RodStorm wrote:

I also picked up an Avools Sword of Jin, everywhere I read its a Rogues sword but to me the stats look good.
Is it worth buying one as well and dual wielding them until I find something better in Naxx etc?
Its an expensive sword so dont want to have it bound if I dont need it to be.
Thanks guys.


It all depends on your gear. I ran with 2 Cobolt Blades for quite a while because I needed hit rating. The main reason for using two one handed weapons is because of this. I wouldn't go out and buy another Jin Sword, wait until you get to 80 and see what you have. There is a good staff from H VH and a ToC badge Staff that can tide you over until you get a decent raid drop (not to mention HToC drops a nice polearm).

Edited, Oct 30th 2009 12:12pm by browningguns
#24 Oct 30 2009 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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352 posts
Excellent guys, thank you very much.
I'll be 80 later on today so thats when the game really starts again :)
Can I get your hunter names to see what you have done with yourselves?
You can pm me if you dont want to make them public.
I'am not sure what the "clasic" SV build is but I went with a slight edit of http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#coZ0eVoooZx0ci0cIhxdAhsu:NbiMmz with no ponts in BM.
But I'am stuck with Expose Weakness and Hunting Party as I have one talent point left.
I have 2/3 in both, Browning said to put 2/3 in EW but it seems a better bet than HP but then again as I havent raided I really dont know.
I sold the sword and have brought a crapload of boe gear from the AH that are CoT and Uldar drops so at 80 I'll be reasonably competitive just needing a few badge items so I can go raid.
But what I have noticed is some of the leather gear now, especially the Knightbane Carapace.
The stats are quite good but its leather, there is the mail Crusaders Dragonscale Breastplate but again some of the leather gear looks quite good stat wise.
I know on my Shammy we shunned away from leather but as a Hunter is it acceptable to mix and match between the two?
The main stat loss would be the armour, does that justify a possible drop in other stats to purely just wear mail?
At 80 I'll have the Trollwoven Spalders until something better comes along, I'am happy to lose armour to gain stats.
I'am pretty keen to make the Knightbane Carapace up but for the money I'am going to spend on mats and the recipe is there something better down the track that I may get that is better?
Or would it be something that would last a long time until I get up to the 25man ToC raid?
On Rawr it rates quite high.
Armour Penetration was mentioned before, is there a number for this like a cap or a total that is required to be respectable?
Or is just more better?
The Crusaders Dragonscale has this but also haste, I read haste is useless to us but I was thinking the faster I shoot the more dps I do.
As for gemming I would gem Agility over AP every time going SV correct?
I know gear wise I would so I'am assuming gems are the same.
Thanks again guys for the help, its been priceless and I really appreciate it.









Edited, Nov 1st 2009 12:24am by RodStorm
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