Arms PvE -- Rotational or Conditional?Follow

So I'm fairly new to being an Arms warrior in PvE.

Yes, I chose to go Arms instead of Fury as I've heard that is actually viable these days.

Wow, has Arms ever changed since TBC... jeez.

Anyways, I am now Lv80 and I'm geared enough to do well in Heroics. I get Overall DPS of 1500-1800 depending on the dungeon and how good the tank is (and how aggressive I can get with Bladestorm without getting roflstomped...).

Anyways, everyone talks about a "Rotation", but one of the things that I enjoy about Arms Warrior is that it is more Situational -- We have abilities that can only be used under certain conditions.

Basically, I'm finding that my Arms ... uh... rotation? ... goes something like this:

1). Charge if possible.
2). Rend, to apply the debuffs. The DoT doesn't hurt either.
3). Mortal Strike whenever it is off CD and/or I have rage for it.

Now, to the conditionals:

IF:

Overpower is available, use it obviously.
Execute AND Overpower are available, Overpower -> Execute (Overpower uses less rage and has a higher chance of crit which would either refresh or apply debuffs gained from scoring a critical hit).

IF:

Neither Overpower nor Execute is available, I use Slam if I have enough rage. If not, I use Rend instead. Rend might cause a Parry or Dodge (which will make Overpower available) and/or refresh debuffs/DoT. There's a chance I'd get an auto-attack in where somewhere too, which also might cause a proc of Taste for Blood or Sudden Death.

IF:

There are 2 mobs, I use Sweeping Strikes.
There are 3+ mobs, I use Bladestorm if I think I will survive it/tank will hold aggro from it. If Sweeping Strikes isn't on CD and the tank is known to be good (Paladin or DK), I'll pair Sweeping Strikes AND Bladestorm (they stack!) together and commence with the facerolling.

That "rotation" + conditionals can easily fill an entire battle. There is a very rare occurrence where MS is on CD, and I have no Rage for Rend or Slam and Overpower/Execute are either not usable or I have too low rage. This is when I pop bloodrage.

Does this sound about right for how to do Arms in PvE? Anything else I should be doing?

*reads*

Hmm, true, I hadn't thought about Overpower that way.

And thanks for reminding me about TfB; I had forgotten what exactly proc'd it; I spent the talent points a long time ago and then set the warrior aside, and did other things for a few months, then dusted the ole warrior off and brought him up to 80, on the way there I started having a real blast leveling him and I've found Arms to be very fun in Instances too. lol.

As far as the Bladestorm macro, I'll have to try that; it is very rare I die from popping Bladestorm (1 in 10 times). I play a paladin tank, I'm pretty good at eyeballing threat; I'm rarely wrong. But, as I'm getting more gear, I find that I do pull aggro a little more often than I'd like, and warning the tank (and healer!) is always good.

But otherwise, I assume I have it pretty down-pat?

Edited, Oct 13th 2009 6:59pm by Zariamnk

refer to this flowchart:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5929/armsdps.jpg

no, im serious. the arms side pretty much says how you should prioritize things.

execute first. sometimes youll get 2-3 SD procs in a row due to white attacks.
overpower after execute, unless overpower is about to be refreshed by rend (4s on the buff, 5 if you notice the buff duration right as you use another skill).
MS if SD and overpower are not available.
slam as filler during cooldowns in a way that allows you to maintain enough rage to use all of your attacks. replace slam with execute during the bottom 20%.
assuming you have still more rage, you add in heroic strike for a swing or two, your discretion.

its a rotation in the sense that its all based loosely around rend. you need to keep rend up at all times to keep the OP procs coming, but theres usually a grace period of 3-5s depending on when the last UA popped up. still, rend does decent damage now (bout 5%ish of top arms warrior raid dps) and its necessary to keep OP going. everything else then fits into that rotation on a priority system.

yeah, it is kinda odd that MS isnt a top priority, but the way things usually work out is that you're hitting MS as something of a filler between other skills. the only time youll lag in using it is if you get a string of SD procs followed by the need to use OP. then you might go 7-9s without using an MS instead of just 5ish.

O...
M...
G...

I died for a good 3 minutes while reading this and another 2 after that reading it again. The sad part is for the arms side it's so true altho I honestly forget about HS/Slam since my arms spec Has a PvP lean on it and slam is a LONG cast for me to fit in.


HYJACK!!! kind of...

Does anyone know a Swing Timer addon? I know that pallies used to have them in early BC but I'mma try to bring it back a bit to max my DPS. Since I'm (amazingly) Uld geared (according to be.imba.hu) I figured that it's time for me to step up to the plate and do everything I can to min/max my dps since that's how I'm gearing for my tank set.

What do you want a swing timer for?

Slam doesn't reset your swing time anymore. It just delays it.

No. You can't avoid it. Simply put.

If you hit slam in the middle of an attack, you don't stop your attack. At all. You will finish your attack right where you left it off.

Slam doesn't 'reset' your swing. Which is what a swing timer is for.

They totally fixed slam rotations so you do not at all ever have to use a swing timer to use it successfully. Slam functions now as if you used slam perfectly every time in BC.

You cannot fix this (minute delay) with a swing timer. Period.

Edited, Nov 5th 2009 1:47am by devioususer

There is a definite rotation to my arms setup...

charge
rend
mortal strike
(there is a half second or so between mortal strike and the first Thirst for blood proc. If i have victory rush available, i will use it here)
Overpower - TfB proc
mortal strike (it will be off of cool down by the time the GCD timer resets after the previous OP)
Slam
Overpower - TfB proc
Mortal Strike
Execute


the only caveat to this is if Sudden Death procs and an execute comes available. I will interrupt my rotation for this because Execute is devastating

Nah. Remember how a swing timer would make you lose less swing with slam rotations?

Well, all your working with now is GCD rotations. You don't need to worry about slam eating away at your white dps, any more than the 0.5 seconds that it takes to cast it. Slam works now like if you had hit slam perfectly after you finished a white hit in Vanilla and BC. Slam pauses your current white swing while you cast it, then after you cast slam, your white swing starts where you left it off.

Like so;

3.5 speed weapon

Time    Effects 
  0     Charge - White swing 
1.5     Rend 
3.0     MS 
3.5     White Swing 
4.5     Slam 
  6     OP 
  7     White Swing

Etc...

So in essence, slam doesn't work like it used to. At all.

Therefore your only managing GCD's, not swing timing at all.

A swing timer allows you to see when your next white hit is going to hit. Which was useful to remove any wasted time between slams and a loss of white damage. I don't see how it's possible to manage GCD's with a swing timer. It's 1.5 seconds between GCD's. That's it. Your not gaining anything from hitting slam right after a white hit. You get the same effect on your white dps if you hit slam right before your next white hit as you would from hitting it right after a white hit. It don't matter.