Trash Aggro, should I be worried? :: EverQuest II

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#27 Oct 10 2009 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent

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SarionBelmont wrote:

Either listen to them and be a mediocre tank stuck in Naxx nearly a year after it's out... or listen to a tank who has cleared every raid in WotLK and get up to par to do the same.

Okay, looking at your Armory following on from Isyris here - just to add it must be the US Arilwen... just look at his prot talents - I've noticed a couple of things about your tank:

1) You haven't cleared EoE 25, and you only cleared EoE10 last week.
2) You haven't cleared Ulduar 10
3) You haven't cleared Ulduar 25
4) You're 4/5 in TotGC 10
5) You're 0/5 in TotGC 25

So, I could be generous and say that you cleared it all on another toon, but you said "tank who has cleared every raid in WotLK" and not forgetting the classic "Have any of you cleared TotGC as a tank? If not please stop talking, because I have and do it weekly now." so hmmm please stop talking?

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 1:46pm by cococj

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#28 Oct 10 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent

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For mediocre players who are in ancient content, sure. Get Run Speed. Tuskarr's is not that bad (as mentioned you lose what, 70hp?) but it is still not optimal. Saying that EVERY MEMBER NEEDS MOVEMENT SPEED is completely ignorant and shows your raiding knowledge.

Honestly, when you raid CURRENT content your opinion will hold more weight. You whiney kids still wasting time on worthless content can keep running your mouths and giving bad advice all you want, but you will still be wrong.

Let's see, downed 3/5 TotGC(saving Twins for Sunday's raid) and Firefighter and Algalon 25 this week. Does that count as 'current' content?

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Okay, looking at your Armory following on from Isyris here - just to add it must be the US Arilwen... just look at his prot talents - I've noticed a couple of things about your tank:

1) You haven't cleared EoE 25, and you only cleared EoE10 last week.
2) You haven't cleared Ulduar 10
3) You haven't cleared Ulduar 25
4) You're 4/5 in TotGC 10
5) You're 0/5 in TotGC 25

So, I could be generous and say that you cleared it all on another toon, but you said "tank who has cleared every raid in WotLK" and not forgetting the classic "Have any of you cleared TotGC as a tank? If not please stop talking, because I have and do it weekly now." so hmmm please stop talking?

Don't forget 0 hard modes in Uld.

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#29 Oct 10 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent

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See, SarionBelmont, that's the difference between You, I, and people like Theo and the other "elites" you got posting in WoW General.

Guys like Theo can be jerks at time, but they _know_ their *beep* and can prove it/back it up. They tell you what's what in a truthful way, and they back it up with facts, theorycraft, etc. They come across as cold, elite jerks, but they know their crap.

Guys like me tend to be polite, hey I don't know Everything, but I do know what I've experienced thusfar. I know I haven't cleared TotCr or anything like that; I admit to it. I don't try to say I did something that I didn't.

Guys like you, however... talk big, brag, and try to make yourself look like something you aren't. If there's any truths in the universe that I am very confident on, however, is the truth that the more you try to look big, is the bigger my laughs will be when someone proves you're full of *beeeeep*.

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#30 Oct 11 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good

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Zariamnk wrote:

See, SarionBelmont, that's the difference between You, I, and people like Theo and the other "elites" you got posting in WoW General.

Guys like Theo can be jerks at time, but they _know_ their *beep* and can prove it/back it up. They tell you what's what in a truthful way, and they back it up with facts, theorycraft, etc. They come across as cold, elite jerks, but they know their crap.

Guys like me tend to be polite, hey I don't know Everything, but I do know what I've experienced thusfar. I know I haven't cleared TotCr or anything like that; I admit to it. I don't try to say I did something that I didn't.

Guys like you, however... talk big, brag, and try to make yourself look like something you aren't. If there's any truths in the universe that I am very confident on, however, is the truth that the more you try to look big, is the bigger my laughs will be when someone proves you're full of *beeeeep*.

This sums it up pretty well. Until recently I had respect for you and your opinions, but after this thread, particularly:

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Have any of you cleared TotGC as a tank? If not please stop talking, because I have and do it weekly now.

no more. I know you probably don't give a rat's @$$, but there it is.

And, nobody addressed my comments, so is it safe to assume that what I said was accurate? Just wanted to make sure so I don't contribute to the spread of misinformation ^^

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#31 Oct 11 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good

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Lifebloom used to credit the healing to the tank when it would bloom but I don't think it does anymore; it's negligible either way, as threat from heals is only 50% of the heal amount.

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#32 Oct 11 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent

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I believe Earth Shield healing counts toward the tank's threat--haven't had to heal in a long time, though, and it could have changed.

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#33 REDACTED, Posted: Oct 11 2009 at 8:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow you really are a funny little gimp. The majority of my posts were very helpful and never condescending. Then I run across know-it-all failures like you, who have cleared NOTHING of note yet think you know more than people who have.

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#34 Oct 11 2009 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent

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SarionBelmont wrote:

Wow you really are a funny little gimp. The majority of my posts were very helpful and never condescending. Then I run across know-it-all failures like you, who have cleared NOTHING of note yet think you know more than people who have.

As for being sub-defaulted, that is due to the emo ****** crybabies who don't like being wrong. Until you've done something of note, your opinion is worthless. I never will claim to be the best Paladin out there but I will gladly tell off people who are wrong.

So to backup your opinion you decided that you must claim to have done "something of note"? You're a hypocrite. You lied in order to make your opinion seem more valid, because in YOUR world clearing the latest content (which you've not actually done) = having a more valid point. Looking again at your Armory, you've been actively tanking for very little time in this game.

While the class has changed significantly in the last year it wouldn't do you any harm to maybe calm down and learn to take other people's points of view on board, especially people who have been playing and theorycrafting for years as protection paladins. Also quit with the childish name calling, which - along with your condescending attitude - is the thing that gets you subdefaulted more often than not.

SarionBelmont wrote:

On the topic of lolUlduar... Ulduar is a fun place to play in but is not something I do unless we have bored people on offnights. I also have a good number of Hard Modes on 10's, and that is plenty considering until just recently I have never been in a serious raiding guild. And as it stands, people going back to school hurt our roster and reliable 25's are infrequent. I also have other 80's who I give my time to. A Mage I run with that has more HM's than Pally(she was main for many months) and my new to 80 Priest who already got to Anub on TotC10. I actually have enough of a life to not spend every hour raiding so yeah, I neglected old content.

I admit I didn't clear Maly until recently. The point being, why bother? There is nothing Maly drops I want or need. Mage cleared it a while back so didn't have much interest in running it. Did it as a PuG (started on Priest, but no one had key) so I got it.

Which is fine, but don't claim to have cleared all current raid content, when you clearly haven't or claim to have cleared content on your tank you also haven't.

SarionBelmont wrote:

I did misspeak on threat, boo @#%^in hoo. God forbid I made a mistake by mixing up my many years of FFXI crap with WoW which I've played less than half as long.

I forgot, everyone here is a god and never, ever makes a mistake.

No, it's not that people don't make mistakes, it's that when adults make mistakes they don't act like children and start boasting and bluffing and calling other people names that frankly have no place on this forum.

I don't get you, on the priest forum and the mage forum you're fairly polite, you ask for other peoples help and offer advice in an almost friendly way. On the paladin forum you're a nightmare, this probably stems from the fact you feel you know far more about paladins, cool whatever, you're fine until someone disagrees with you then we see your true colours.

For the record on the whole PoJ question, my dual-spec has it on one and not the other (both prot) it depends on if I'm OT or MT, the boss we're doing and my precise role in that fight. Usually I'm MT in which case my points are generally better spent elsewhere - not in Vindication though. That's largely irrelevant, it's your behaviour when someone disagrees with I'm astonished about.

Last word on this from me for now; but I notice from a post you made in another thread that your guild is considering you for paladin class lead, you're also a tank, I'd like to give you a friendly piece of advice... get a cooler head, for both roles you need it.

Edited, Oct 12th 2009 1:14am by cococj

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#35 Oct 13 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent

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Oh dear, I don't visit the forums for a while and I get to read this. Same old squabbles even.

Let's get back to the topic creator, who might of gotten his answer but I feel like chiming in anyway.

You shouldn't have too much of a hard time, but obviously when you have over geared dps it may get tricky. What works for me is to avenger's shield, consecrate, and then HotR as they get in range (or while running to them). If you feel you are going oom to much, you can always just pull more (if your healer is semi competent). It's up to you to decide how much you feel comfortable pulling. If it's a huge issue, use seal of wisdom.

@maulgak; I'm pretty sure Earth Shiled and PoM still give the healing threat to who ever it's cast on. I can't really think of anything else that does atm.

@Zariamnk; Yes it is pretty common to struggle with mana, As I stated above if it's a huge issue you can use Seal of Wisdom, otherwise do what I do, chain pull/mass pull. Heroic UK is actually pretty convenient for it, I usually pull 6-8 mobs at once to keep my mana up, they're usually pretty bunched up.

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#36 Oct 13 2009 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good

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electricwizard wrote:

@maulgak; I'm pretty sure Earth Shiled and PoM still give the healing threat to who ever it's cast on. I can't really think of anything else that does atm.

Prayer of Mending got changed a while back so it doesn't attribute healing threat to the person it was cast on. I'm pretty sure all healing spells were changed the same way, but in the grand scheme of things they created such a miniscule amount of threat that it hardly seems worth talking about.

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#37 Oct 15 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good

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To the OP; Pally tanking is a biznatch. I'm just getting back into tanking with my main, and I always have issues. I have seen paladins who were geared as heck, and still couldn't hold aggro worth *BEEP* on trash mobs. I've also seen tanks in greens go into heroics and not lose aggro on ANYTHING the entire run. And of course, if you have a decent healer, trash won't be too much of a problem if a dps gets smacked once or twice. The main thing you'll really have to worry about are large groups and an overzealous arms warrior.

As for the rest of it-
So, if I get this right:
Sarion, you think run speed doesn't help in ToGCr? Wrong. What happens when you're standing across the room from the portal on the twin val'kyr fight? You've gotta hustle over there or else you'll die. What happens when you've got an infernal from jaraxxus dropping on your face? You've got to move, FAST. Especially for healers or tanks - the healers have to keep you alive, how are they going to do that when you've got to move out of aoe and you're too slow? What about Legion flame? That movement speed doesn't seem like a lot until you have 2 seconds to move or die, and if you're a tank (especially main tank), it's move or wipe.

And taking damage doesn't reduce threat.... Are you insane? NOT DEALING damage will reduce your threat, but there is NOTHING about taking damage reducing threat, anywhere in the game. What kind of system would it be where the guy who is supposed to get beat up, loses threat as he gets beat? It would mean tanking would be pointless - may as well just def cap everyone and let the mobs run back and forth getting wailed on by dps. Your logic is astoundingly erroneous for someone who actually plays the game. Seems like you were just talking nonsense to make yourself seem more knowledgeable.
Tip: If you want to sound smart, talk about stuff you actually know about.

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#38 Oct 16 2009 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good

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Karilena wrote:

And taking damage doesn't reduce threat.... Are you insane? NOT DEALING damage will reduce your threat, but there is NOTHING about taking damage reducing threat, anywhere in the game. What kind of system would it be where the guy who is supposed to get beat up, loses threat as he gets beat?

To be fair, FFXI has a system exactly like this, though tanks can still out-threat DPS if they're any good. My guess is he just got mixed up between games when he made that statement.

Also, I have to disagree about pally tanking being a biznatch for heroics. Other than Druid (lolswipe), it's the easiest class to tank groups with. Try it with a Warrior some time, then come back to Pally. Big difference.

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#39 Oct 16 2009 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent

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Reactive heals (Earth Shield, Prayer of Mending, Living Seed) were supposedly changed to attribute the threat to the caster and not the target many patches ago. The last time I tested Prayer of Mending (it's been a few months), it actually gave no threat. Don't know about ES or LS, though.

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Trash Aggro, should I be worried?Follow