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Incoming Vanish Fix?Follow

#1 Oct 03 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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From the Patch 3.3.0 notes.

Quote:
Vanish: For the first second after this ability is used, neither Vanish nor Stealth can be broken by taking damage or being the victim of a hostile spell or ability.

Best. Change. Ever.
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#2 Oct 03 2009 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, it's not like we suggested this change four years ago or anything. Smiley: rolleyes
#3 Oct 03 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yeah, it's not like we suggested this change four years ago or anything. Smiley: rolleyes

The vanish bug is really complicated though, I've been trying it for 4 years but have never managed to replicate it. It's really hard to fix such a thing.
#4 Oct 03 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Default
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Mozared wrote:
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Yeah, it's not like we suggested this change four years ago or anything. Smiley: rolleyes

The vanish bug is really complicated though, I've been trying it for 4 years but have never managed to replicate it. It's really hard to fix such a thing.

Seriously? You may just be dumb and not realized that it happened. Based on evidence that I've gathered, it's far more likely an outcome than you not having experienced it ever.
#5 Oct 03 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Seriously? You may just be dumb and not realized that it happened. Based on evidence that I've gathered, it's far more likely an outcome than you not having experienced it ever.




and he's back
#6 Oct 03 2009 at 9:02 PM Rating: Default
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ThomasMagnum wrote:
and he's back

It's like Wayne Gretzky skating back out onto the ice and taking a shot on a goalie and woosh, top left corner.

The Great One returns (for one post)!
#7 Oct 04 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
and he's back

And even if he fails at being informed he'll still attempt to blame it on somebody else. It's impossible to play a rogue in PvP and not notice the Vanish bug. I was playing on the reaction Blizz has always given Vanish bug reports; that the Vanish bug is extremely tricky to fix and that they never have been able to reproduce it on their own servers.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910132351&sid=1
Not that it'll have any effect, but I'll say it anyway: instead of underestimating everyone you might want to go with some neutrality every once in a while. I know 99% of the players/people out there are idiots, but that 1% is still a large number and you're posting in a place where you're most like to find people fitting in there.

Grats on your 10K posts, by the way.
#8 Oct 04 2009 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Now if only pets wouldn't continue to rape me after Vanish...
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#9 Oct 05 2009 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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Class is gonna get nerf'd if they don't lower it to .5 seconds.


mark my words.
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#10 Oct 05 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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Stoked about this fix but based on the few comments I read on the front page all other classes are going to QQ over the "new rogue win button" that blizzard will nerf everything else about rogues into oblivion until we are about as useful in PvP as hunters.
#11 Oct 05 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Default
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Mozared wrote:
Quote:
and he's back

And even if he fails at being informed he'll still attempt to blame it on somebody else. It's impossible to play a rogue in PvP and not notice the Vanish bug. I was playing on the reaction Blizz has always given Vanish bug reports; that the Vanish bug is extremely tricky to fix and that they never have been able to reproduce it on their own servers

Yeah, because your sarcasm was ever evident and you've never made stupid posts on the rogue forums.

Logic dictates that you were being stupid again, not that you were being sarcastic.
#12 Oct 05 2009 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Class is gonna get nerf'd if they don't lower it to .5 seconds.


So then it wont be any different than any other patch.

Though in all seriousness I'm so used to being nerfed in every way imaginable that I actually find it a little suspicious when we come away from a patch without being nerfed in some way or god forbid given some kind of buff (which is usually added to make up for a nerf anyway so it's kind of moot).
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#13 Oct 05 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Theophany wrote:
Logic dictates that you were being stupid again, not that you were being sarcastic.

*********
#14 Oct 05 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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tabstopper wrote:
Theophany wrote:
Logic dictates that you were being stupid again, not that you were being sarcastic.

Bullsh*t.

Let's go with a hypothetical.

You know that the world is round. You have experience and mathematical proof that the world is round.

Someone comes to the classroom where you're teaching people about the world, and they say, "no, in my experience the world is flat."

They do this every time that you start talking about the world being round and despite you presenting mathematical proof, they still insist that the world is flat (or that it just can't be determined from the data gathered).

The guy insisting that the world is flat is Mozared; he may be a great guy, but I've never seen him do anything with numbers. In fact, in his early posts here, he was adamant that I was wrong about one of my PvE builds, or at least that another build was just as viable (when it wasn't).

This happened for a few months. Eventually I think he either just stopped caring or he decided to not argue with me, because no one on this forum was agreeing with him (mainly because I had math on my side).

Now take this thread in context; is it more logical for me to think Mozared (who in my experience is a great guy, despite having moments of stupidity) is being dumb, or that he's being sarcastic?

Generally when someone is joking or being sarcastic on the internet, they use a smilie or phrase it in such a way that it's not taken as a statement, but as an over-the-top remark that is meant to be read as sarcastic.
#15 Oct 05 2009 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mozared wrote:
The guy insisting that the world is flat is Mozared; he may be a great guy, but I've never seen him do anything with numbers. In fact, in his early posts here, he was adamant that I was wrong about one of my PvE builds, or at least that another build was just as viable (when it wasn't).

I've seen Mozared be off with numbers in the past (though IMO it's more like a guy who just doesn't do well at Statics, rather than someone insisting the world is flat). But that doesn't mean he's stupid. Anyone who's PVPed for more than 5 minutes on a rogue has seen Vanish act like a *****. There's a reason 90+% of Rogues use Vanish offensively. It can't be counted on a defensive CD in a TON of situations.

Either way, if you had said "My past experience dictates that you're being stupid, not sarcastic," I wouldn't have had an issue (Mozared might have, but that's another issue).

Past experience isn't "logic" though.

You saying, "You've been wrong about Rogue builds before, so I'm going to assume you're actually too stupid to recognize that Vanish is bugged" isn't logic. It's prejudice (though in your opinion prejudice based rightly on past experience).

Theophany wrote:
Now take this thread in context; is it more logical for me to think Mozared (who in my experience is a great guy, despite having moments of stupidity) is being dumb, or that he's being sarcastic?

One or the other might be nicer. One or the other might be more understandable. One or the other might be more reasonable. But neither is a logical position to take.
#16 Oct 05 2009 at 5:59 PM Rating: Default
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tabstopper wrote:
Past experience isn't "logic" though.

You saying, "You've been wrong about Rogue builds before, so I'm going to assume you're actually too stupid to recognize that Vanish is bugged" isn't logic. It's prejudice (though in your opinion prejudice based rightly on past experience).

You obviously don't know what logic is. Logic involves being able to draw conclusions from a set of premises.

In a very simple way:

If someone is wrong once, then they are mistaken about something.
If someone is mistaken about something, then they may be stupid.
Ergo, if someone is wrong once, then they may be stupid.

It's cool though, you're obviously stupid.
#17 Oct 05 2009 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Without trying to diss you or being a ***** Theo, can't you just for once admit that you too make mistakes and that this time your "I-spit-on-everybody" attitude has backfired on you?

I know how you think about me, and like you said, I also stopped caring. I know why you say what you do - you judge me on posts I've made more than a year ago of which you never grasped the point. I'm not even saying that was your fault - back in the time the least that could be said about my posts is that they were unclear (and like Mental told you before, yes, I have changed, I won't deny that). It was never my intention to tell you that your cookie cutter builds suck (they're cookie cutter for a reason), but I was trying to tell you that I had my reasons for not liking them and that one of the sources of enjoyment for me in this game is to play around with the specs myself. Which incidentally is part of the reason why I rarely use(d) math; I like to think I'm fairly good as estimating and I don't need to calculate the numbers on a 6% damage bonus on ability X if I know more or less what it will amount to. But if you really want 'proof' or something to show I'm not the dime a dozen huntard, all you need to do is look through my posts (hint: the priest forum). And if you can't be ***** with that, we're just going to go back to ignoring eachother until perhaps at one point you open up again and your ignorance backfires once more. I don't want you to respect me, or anyone for that matter, but I'm just trying to tell you that showing some of it every once in a while will be a positive experience for both you and whoever you're communicating with.
#18 Oct 06 2009 at 4:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Theophany wrote:
If someone is wrong once, then they are mistaken about something.
If someone is mistaken about something, then they may be stupid.
Ergo, if someone is wrong once, then they may be stupid.

Good Lord, and you say I'm stupid? First, every single person has been wrong at least once in their life. So your entire chain is useless. It proves every person may or may not be stupid.

It's alright though. You made it sound smart by using "ergo" instead of "therefore."

But even if you can prove that Mozared is stupid (which you can't and haven't), that wouldn't be useful in proving the matter at hand (whether was he being sarcastic with his original statement).

It's OK. I know it's so tempting to say something like "Logic dictates that I am right." It makes you sound like you really know what you're talking about. Actually, it sounds like something Dr. House would say. Of course, he has writer that makes sure he usually is right when he says something like that. And it's obviously not in your nature to lose face by admitting that you were talking out of your *** so that you would sound better to people on the internet.

Don't worry, you don't have to lose face! Just launch some ad hominem attacks (you seem to have already taken this advice). They'll deflect attention from your position, and as a perk it knocks down the @#%^ who dared to call you out on something.

EDIT: Typo.

Edited, Oct 6th 2009 8:10am by tabstopper
#19 Oct 06 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
If someone is wrong once, then they are mistaken about something.
If someone is mistaken about something, then they may be stupid.
Ergo, if someone is wrong once, then they may be stupid.

It's cool though, you're obviously stupid.


Since you were at least mistaken once on this board, you're stupid too. It's cool though. Pot meets kettle :)
#20 Oct 06 2009 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
Holy derail batman!!

Anyways, back to the original point~ I do view this with a bit of trepidation. I mainly PvE, and in PvE it generally does what you need it to do, which is drop aggro. It's not that important if it destealths right after, so for me, right now it's an ok tool. Not destealthing me if I get damaged within a second isn't going to be a big upgrade. If rogue gets nerfed because of this change to vanish, it's going to be all downside for me with not much upside.
#21 Oct 06 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Default
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tabstopper wrote:
It's OK. I know it's so tempting to say something like "Logic dictates that I am right." It makes you sound like you really know what you're talking about. Actually, it sounds like something Dr. House would say. Of course, he has writer that makes sure he usually is right when he says something like that. And it's obviously not in your nature to lose face by admitting that you were talking out of your *** so that you would sound better to people on the internet.

I was refuting that there is no logic involved in me making that argument.

I never said "logic dictates that I'm right," I said "logic dictates that you were being stupid again".

If all you remember of someone is that they have a habit of posting utterly retarded nonsense, does it not make sense that I would make that leap in logic and assume he's a ******?

It's alright; I realize you have something against me. You're probably feeling butthurt by something I've said in the past.
#22 Oct 06 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theophany wrote:
If all you remember of someone is that they have a habit of posting utterly retarded nonsense, does it not make sense that I would make that leap in logic and assume he's a ******?

This "leap in logic" that you speak of ... I'm pretty sure it isn't actually allowed when you're using logic. At all.

Mostly because it leads to all kinds of incorrect conclusions (like the one you made about Mozared's statement) based on whatever prejudices you have.

I stand by my original statement that logic (even granting every single one of your arrogant assumptions) doesn't dictate that Mozared was "being stupid again, not being sarcastic."

And Theo, I have nothing in particular against you. Notice, my first post of any length in this thread is very polite. I will admit I got a little snarky towards you in my second post, mostly because you were arguing a wrong position, using horrid pseudo-logic, and calling me stupid all at the same time. And for that I apologize. Mostly because we've now managed to completely sidetrack this little party.

Demea wrote:
Quote:

Vanish: For the first second after this ability is used, neither Vanish nor Stealth can be broken by taking damage or being the victim of a hostile spell or ability.


Best. Change. Ever

/agree. :-P
#23 Oct 06 2009 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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Point 1 to Tab.
#24 Oct 07 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Holy derail batman!!

Anyways, back to the original point~ I do view this with a bit of trepidation. I mainly PvE, and in PvE it generally does what you need it to do, which is drop aggro. It's not that important if it destealths right after, so for me, right now it's an ok tool. Not destealthing me if I get damaged within a second isn't going to be a big upgrade. If rogue gets nerfed because of this change to vanish, it's going to be all downside for me with not much upside.



1 Second in stealth without taking damage means big "one-shot" boss spells won't be such a big deal with good reflexes.


Hello vanish immuning Lightning Novas in VOA, novas in Uld etc etc.
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#25 Oct 07 2009 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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tabstopper wrote:
Theophany wrote:
If all you remember of someone is that they have a habit of posting utterly retarded nonsense, does it not make sense that I would make that leap in logic and assume he's a ******?

This "leap in logic" that you speak of ... I'm pretty sure it isn't actually allowed when you're using logic. At all.

Mostly because it leads to all kinds of incorrect conclusions (like the one you made about Mozared's statement) based on whatever prejudices you have.

I stand by my original statement that logic (even granting every single one of your arrogant assumptions) doesn't dictate that Mozared was "being stupid again, not being sarcastic."

And Theo, I have nothing in particular against you. Notice, my first post of any length in this thread is very polite. I will admit I got a little snarky towards you in my second post, mostly because you were arguing a wrong position, using horrid pseudo-logic, and calling me stupid all at the same time. And for that I apologize. Mostly because we've now managed to completely sidetrack this little party.

Actually, I didn't note my leap in logic, but you're allowed to draw conclusions based on a set of premises.

Mozared has made many stupid posts in the past, and my personal experience says that that's far more likely of a focus for his posts than sarcasm. Logic would be alright with that kind of a prediction.

Yes, I was wrong about the actuality. I never said I was right, because it's already been determined that he was being sarcastic. But are you REALLY saying I was completely wrong to assume that he was being a ****** with how many retarded posts he's made?

Right.
#26 Oct 07 2009 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

1 Second in stealth without taking damage means big "one-shot" boss spells won't be such a big deal with good reflexes.


Hello vanish immuning Lightning Novas in VOA, novas in Uld etc etc.


You might want to reread the notes. The only thing it does is prevent any damage you take from knocking you out of Vanish/Stealth for one second after you use Vanish. It doesn't make you immune to damage so if an AoE attack would kill you under normal circumstances it's still going to kill you when you Vanish after the change.

It fixes the "bug" by circumventing the lag that was causing it.

Besides, if you want to dodge Lightning Nova and the like, that's what Cloak of Shadows is for. You can use it more often and it lasts longer.

Edit: And just now looking at the updated patch notes, the effect has been lowered from one second to a half second.

Blizzard wrote:
# Vanish: For the first half second after this ability is used, neither Vanish nor Stealth can be broken by taking damage or being the victim of a hostile spell or ability.


Edited, Oct 8th 2009 12:25am by MasterOutlaw
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FFXI (Retired)
Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O

WoW
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Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale


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