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For those DK's wondering...a subject on Frost DPSFollow

#52 Nov 02 2009 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
Mazra wrote:


Or you can do like I do and just /facedesk and roll back and forth. If you've got some decent gear you'll do around 3k DPS or so. Smiley: grin


oh man this made me laugh.

Mazra wrote:


Well, it's most likely not Heart Strike, considering it's a Blood talent.

You want to use Blood Strike whenever your blood runes are up, because you want them death runes for 3x Oblit spam in the second rotation. Smiley: clap


Yea, for some reason I type HS and not BS. I know it isn't Blood Boil, and I know I get Death runs..so yea :3
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#53 Nov 02 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
Mazra wrote:

...you can do like I do and just /facedesk and roll back and forth. If you've got some decent gear you'll do around 3k DPS or so. Smiley: grin


I would like to think my gear is enough to get me more than 800-900dps...

Armory... Anger

I hope I am just failing at doing the rotation correctly which is far easier to fix and costs less than upgrading the gear very much more.


Let me know if the gear is alright and if I should be getting more than 800-900dps out of it... I use the same gear (except I have a 2h mace) for my Unholy spec and I can get it up to about 1800-1900dps there...


Thanks!

#54 Nov 03 2009 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
I saw one of the previous posts saying that unholy is a great aoe spec but since the last patch or the patch before(i'm not sure which) it lost alot of aoe and is now more of a DoT spec.
#55 Nov 03 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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PentUpAnger wrote:
I hope I am just failing at doing the rotation correctly which is far easier to fix and costs less than upgrading the gear very much more.

I'm not a DK expert, but I'd be sorely disappointed to see less than 2k single target DPS from you in that gear. Doesn't mean there aren't a lot of easy / cheap upgrades (there are), but I'd guess it's a playstyle (rotation, priorities etc) issue. Hell, I'd expect 2k DPS from you if you were DWing ilvl 200 blues.

I'll let the experts give actual suggestions though. :)
#56 Nov 03 2009 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
I like to think all my gear I have on is/was easy to get (check sig, Sandinmyeye is my DK).
I know I still need upgrades, and some re-gemming might be due (as I don't really PvP..and play on a PvE realm).

If I just stand there and slack off, I can do 1.5k DPS. . .

So you getting 600-900 DPS is low.
I still suggest getting more Strength, check the AH for some maybe upgrades, and/or ask a Armorsmith to link their book and look at their 78-80 gear and see if it would help.

Most of my Gear was either made, came from H/ToC, ToC seals (my weapons),Exalted Rep merchants.

But with you able to get more DPS out of it + a 2h mace, makes me think you and the rotation are not friends yet. . .
So lets take a look at the rotation I use. It is very close to what is listed at EJ's fost dps thread

Part 1:
-Use Horn of Winter right as you attack. that is 10 RP. (I suggest, as I see you do not have it, getting the Glyph for Horn of Winter. I spam mine all the time, so it really doesn't matter. I might replace mine due to how much I spam HoW. 1 extra min doesn't matter.)

-Drop an IT. Haste for all, another 10 RP(due to glyph)+5RP(due to talent)+w/e base RP IT gives (you should have like 30RP now?)
-Hit PS
-You should be able to get off 1 Obliterate (if not, you did something wrong. OB takes 1 F&U rune, and you should have 1 of each not used yet)
**Did KM proc sometime between all this yet? Did Rime proc when you used OB? If yes/yes, lay down a Howling Blast.
If no/no, skip this. If yes/no you can a) If able use HB but at the cost of rune or 2)Use a FS/IT. If no/yes;I'd save HB but watch the timer, if no KM proc at 2sec use the HB**

Part 2 (I do assume you are fighting a boss or something to get all this off. I mean the above should have taken all of like a few sec. Just waiting for GCD to move to the next step. If it was a normal mob it is probably almost dead now):

*#*-You either have enough RP to use a FS 2-3 times, or not. (at EJ, this is the "dump" at the end of part one.)*#*

-Your Frost and Unholy runes should be close to being ready to be used again. Go ahead and get the Blood Runes to be Death Runes. BSx2
**Now IT and PS should still have some decent time left on your target. You should have a good amount of RP, AND your Frost and Unholy runes should be up and ready to go**
-Use OB
**Did KM/Rime Proc? See above in part one on what to do**
-Use OB
**again? above?**
-Use OB
**yup**

RP Dump part 2:
At this point you should be filled with RP. FS until you can no longer.

Restart.

Your IT and PS probably have dropped and need to be refreshed, or they are getting pretty close to it.
You might not be able to get off HoW (it may be on cool down still) So use it right before Part 2 for extra RP if needed.

Edit to add add-ons:

MikScrollingBattleText:I see what I'm doing around my toon. It makes sounds, and stuff when I Crit. It lets me know when Buffs and stuff wear off (like when I need to cast HoW).

EventAlert: When stuff procs, I like to know what went off. As I've said before, some of the things that proc for us sound the same to me. The icons are RIGHT in the middle of the screen so I can't miss them.

Xperl: I like this for my party/raid frames. But the main thing I like about it is when I'm in a party/raid and there are other DKs... all my Diseases are in Larger Boxes under the target w/ a timer. So I don't get confuses and think "oh, IT and PS are still up" when they are not Mine.

Bartender/Dominos: Action Buttons. I like to see them all. I play with a Game Pad & Click with mouse. I change between the 2, they each have something I like about them.

Recount: to know how much i suck.



Edited, Nov 3rd 2009 1:47pm by Sandinmygum

Edited, Nov 3rd 2009 1:50pm by Sandinmygum
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#57 Nov 03 2009 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
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#58 Nov 07 2009 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
As a self proclaimed DK newb, still leveling, I'd like some better understanding on a couple things for Frost, so please fill me in:

1- My "vision" for my dk is 2H frost, yet dual wield appears the superior flavor atm. So is a 2H still reasonably viable or is it a self-gimping setup? I'm all for being different, play what ya like, etc but don't want to be seen as "speccing stupid".

2- Some info I've read suggests that after 51 pts in Frost, the remaining 20 pts almost can't go wrong (meaning Blood or Unholy). Any thoughts to share in this regard?
#59 Nov 08 2009 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
1- My "vision" for my dk is 2H frost, yet dual wield appears the superior flavor atm. So is a 2H still reasonably viable or is it a self-gimping setup? I'm all for being different, play what ya like, etc but don't want to be seen as "speccing stupid".

This Spec makes dual wielding work.
I've never equipped my 2H to see what DPS did, because I figured I'd be hurting myself.
If you want to be a 2H DK DPS, Blood and Unholy both do it fine. And I'm sure a few changes with stats, Frost can be 2hDPS

2- Some info I've read suggests that after 51 pts in Frost, the remaining 20 pts almost can't go wrong (meaning Blood or Unholy). Any thoughts to share in this regard?[/quote]


The build most of us use is the 0/53/18 build. So where you get your info at, I dunno.
EJ has a post that covers this spec, and a few others.

Imo, 7 points NEEDs to go into Unholy for Epidemic.
The other 11 points I guess you could place where you would like them. But these specs are tested and tested to get the best out of them.
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#60 Nov 09 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
Mazra wrote:
Pent, I have no idea why you're doing such low DPS. Seriously, I was doing 1k DPS at level 70 and while that doesn't help you at all, it tells me something is wrong. Hell, I'm facerolling in this gear and doing 2.8k on single targets. On more than two targets I spike as high as 4k DPS.


Just an update.

I was just messing around today on Chillmaw and was watching what was proccing and whatnot with EventAlert... got my dps up to 2200dps without even doing any rotation really.

Maybe I was doing a rotation and it is starting to come more naturally so it doesn't seem like it is an actual rotation... who knows.

I think if I can get the rotation down and start using Blood Strike when I need to I will be able to start pulling bigger numbers.

On a side note... I mentioned earlier that I was having the same low DPS problem with my Lock... I changed him to Destruction spec and all is well there too.

#61 Nov 09 2009 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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Good to see you're up and running again, Pent. Smiley: smile

Azaza wrote:
1- My "vision" for my dk is 2H frost, yet dual wield appears the superior flavor atm. So is a 2H still reasonably viable or is it a self-gimping setup? I'm all for being different, play what ya like, etc but don't want to be seen as "speccing stupid".


Once you get better gear (emblem stuff and ToC), you'll notice that your attacks actually do more damage when dual-wielding that when running with a two-handed Frost build. I've tested this myself and even with two blue weapons (Knights of the Ebon Blade reputation gear) I'm doing more damage than with Marrowstrike (epic polearm from ToC Heroic).

The reason is that with enough +hit and +expertise, you'll notice your off-hand is hitting a lot. You'll also notice that thanks to talents, whenever you use a Strike (Frost Strike, Blood Strike, Obliterate, etc.) you'll hit with BOTH weapons and not just your main hand like all other classes do when dual-wielding.

With a two-handed weapon my Frost Strikes crit for around 4-5,000 damage. With dual-wield it crits for 8-9,000 damage. Getting a Killing Machine proc will make your Frost Strike a guaranteed crit and thanks to talents, you hit with both weapons and thus get two crits in one.

Azaza wrote:
2- Some info I've read suggests that after 51 pts in Frost, the remaining 20 pts almost can't go wrong (meaning Blood or Unholy). Any thoughts to share in this regard?


Seeing as you're going two-handed Frost, I'm not really sure about that. I went Unholy with my dual-wield build because I wanted Necrosis and Blood-Caked Blade. Both talents work on auto-attack hits (white hits) and since I'm dual-wielding, I'm getting a lot of those.

You might be better off going Blood with the remaining points, but don't take my word for it.
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#62 Nov 22 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
My buddy has a great frost DPS spec and pulls very nice dps.. heres his link


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Bloodscalp&n=Yajerk&group=1
#63 Nov 22 2009 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
My buddy has a great frost DPS spec and pulls very nice dps.. heres his link


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Bloodscalp&n=Yajerk&group=1


That spec is just the 53/18 one with the points from Blood-Caked Blade moved to Blood (making it 3/53/18).

I see why it seems like a good idea. But, without knowing the numbers personally, it's hard to calculate. Using your friend's gear, BCB should be about 2800 Damage per Minute at the lower boundary, which is 46.7 DpS. I don't know if these hits can proc Necrosis, FC or RI. If it does, the talent becomes much more valuable.

I can do some napkin math for the other, but it may be off.

Oblit- [(312+580)/2+(297+552)/2+467.2]*1.25=446+424.5+467.2=1337.7*1.25=1672.125
BS- v [[(312+580)/2+(297+552)/2]*0.40+305.6]*1.25=817.25

Now, using a normal rotation, you should have 4 Obliterates and 2 Blood Strikes every 20 seconds, for 12 obliterates and 6 Blood Strikes per minute. Your friend already has 26% crit (without HoW and other buffs, mind you), so he will already get a crit on approximately 3 Obliterates and 1 or 2 Blood Strikes.

That leaves 9 Oblits and 4-5 BS.

A 9% additional crit chance would give you about 1 more Oblit crit per minute, and would make the "2" result for BSs 50% more likely.

So, 3 points in that talent is only really worth one oblit's worth of crit damage and half a BS of crit damage a minute. With GoG those are boosted by 45%. That's about 3K with my napkin math. But, as your crit gets higher, this damage gets lower (I did these calculations using 26% crit), where BCB stays the same (with the assumption on both of same weapon damage/speed). Also note that I didn't factor any +crit talents into this. That is going to further lower the damage from the crit talent.

So, yeah. It should also be noted that I did not bother looking into every little talent that boosts these abilities/talents. I glyphed Oblit and that's it.

I imagine it won't take long for BCB to overtake Subversion. And, like I noted before, I didn't take note of Haste, which will boost BCB's damage.
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