tommyguns wrote:
and here's the catch: once that one Ret spot is filled, a second Ret brings only his hammer. same holds true if all of those buffs are already represented by other classes. however, after the rogue brings his buffs, a second rogue would still add hybrid dps + 10%.
The second Ret also brings additional blessings, more passive mana regen through JoW, and a second aura if needed. As well as more hands, cleanses, and if need be healing.
As for buffs being provided by other classes, there isn't one class that single-handedly provides all of a ret pally's buffs; both of the rogue's buffs are also provided by arms warriors (the mortal strike effect can also be provided by fury warriors and most hunters, never mind that reduced healing is not even useful in most PvE encounters). The chances that a raid will have other people who between them cover every single buff a ret pally can provide are fairly slim.
To cover the vindication debuff, they'd need warrior, druid, warlock, or possibly a prot pally. (And even then, 2/2 vindication is stronger than all of them without 5/5 improvement talents. Demoralizing Roar requires bear form, so in practice only feral tanks will use it.)
For the damage buff, they'd need a BM hunter. (Especially unlikely, since BM is not a particularly good raid spec compared to marks and survival.)
For the haste, they'd need a boomkin.
For replenishment, they'd need a survival hunter, shadow priest, destro lock, or frost mage. (And again, frost is the worst raid spec for mages. Also, since replenishment only affects 10 raid members each time it procs, it doesn't hurt to have 2 people who can provide it in 25-mans.)
For the crit taken debuff, they'd need an elemental shammy, an assassination rogue, or possibly another pally.
The passive healing from JoL can only be provided by another pally (which still gives you the option of using JoW for the passive mana regen); the same goes for JoW.
Blessing of Kings can only be provided by another pally; Might can only be provided by a warrior or another pally, but unlike battle shout doesn't need to be refreshed every 2-3 minutes, and holy and prot pallies are less likely to have the improved version; and Wisdom can only be provided by a shammy or another paladin, though resto shammies and holy pallies are likely to have the improved version (though the shammy can't drop cleansing or healing stream totems if the have to use mana spring instead).
In all, you need at least 6 people to cover every buff a ret pally provides, at least 4 of which are themselves hybrid classes, and 1 of which is not a spectacular raid build. (Warrior, elemental shammy, BM hunter, boomkin, holy or prot pally, and one of: survival hunter, frost mage, S priest, or destro lock.) And even with those 6, a ret pally still has a place: adding a ret pally means that both JoW and JoL are up and allows the shammy to drop healing stream or cleansing totems. It's extremely rare to have all 6 of those in a 10-man, and it's pretty damn uncommon even in 25-man (it's obviously impossible in 5-man).