need some help from those of you that have already beat the faction champions in ToC... i've been in 4 different groups now (main + alt) and this week my main group raped the beasts and lord jaraxxus but every group has had an impossible time with the faction champions. this group this week I even made sure we had more diversity and CC/cleanse/purging to maximize our chances. we still failed hard. is there some crazy obvious thing we're missing? is this fight really just 10 times harder than lord jaraxxus? it seems like it shouldn't be, but we had no deaths on lord jaraxxus but couldn't even get one healer down... i'm feeling pretty fail at the moment. we did 10 man last night and might go back this weekend and we're gonna give 25 man a try later this week. any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.
for the 10 man we had pally/priest healers, mage, rogue, shaman, boomkin. my group was pally tank (ret for the champions), dk tank (also dps for this), 2 druid healers and a holy priest, mage, lock, rogue, ret pally (me), and surv hunter w/ wyvern sting and aimed shot... it seemed we should have enough diversity to be able to handle this fight...
ty in advance for any help.
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While 10man is somewhat easy,
25man is arguably the 2nd hardest fight in the entire game(hardest being Algalon)
Blizz needs to hit this with the nerfbat ASAP because as it stands, I doubt anyone but Ensidia and the like would down Heroic.
Went in last night and FINALLY cleared it with a new guild on 2nd day (7th attempt), though my prior guild had failed 30x+. 25man is just insane.
Either way you go it is "simple" but hard.
You need ~half the raid on CC. Mages, Druids, Rogue, Shaman.
They MUST rotate CC's as the bosses get diminishing returns(hence why people call it the "pvp" fight) and will own your face.
Our kill order on 25 was:
Shaman: most important. this guy and his totems are INSANE. MUST spam Dispel/Purge nonstop.
Priest: very potent heals. Just keep him stunlocked and own his face.
Paladin: Annoying heals and decent dmg against raid.
Rogue: Most deadly mob in the whole area.
Shadow Priest: Annoying DoTs and Fears.
Warrior: Absolute nightmare if not kept kited/cc'd. Blade Storm WILL wipe you if you are not careful and he is exceptionally hard to CC.
Warlock: Wimp.
Hunter: Wimp.
I think that's all of them? If I forgot any they were after War and before Warlock.
The main idea is you MUST keep DPS mobs away from healers, burn down the Shaman as fast as possible while keeping other healers CC'd or stun locked.
My group had the best setup possible almost though due to 5 Shamans meaning 5 Tremor Totems so Fear did nothing.
Shamans are huge here, as are Druids and Rogues. The FoK spam is bad since it breaks CC's AND is being nerfed, so learning it is worthless.
Shaman pops Hero RIGHT at start, Druids Cyclone and Rogues lock up mobs. DK is good for pulling mobs out of groups, plus chains of ice.
Also see if your Priest can go Disc for Mass Dispel spamming since you have more than enough healing.
The fight is both a DPS race and strategy. You MUST down the Shaman in like, 20 seconds or it gets progressively harder. Keep 1 DPS on his Healing Stream Totem or it will heal tons and dispel MUST happen for HoT's and Earth Shield.
The fight is hard and VERY long (25man took 28 minutes) which leaves a LOT of room to be sloppy. If your guild is not tight and focused you will wipefest forever. This fight takes concentration and focus at all times to go to correct mobs, NEVER drop CC's and keep healers alive.
PvP trinket is also a plus.
25man is arguably the 2nd hardest fight in the entire game(hardest being Algalon)
Blizz needs to hit this with the nerfbat ASAP because as it stands, I doubt anyone but Ensidia and the like would down Heroic.
Went in last night and FINALLY cleared it with a new guild on 2nd day (7th attempt), though my prior guild had failed 30x+. 25man is just insane.
Either way you go it is "simple" but hard.
You need ~half the raid on CC. Mages, Druids, Rogue, Shaman.
They MUST rotate CC's as the bosses get diminishing returns(hence why people call it the "pvp" fight) and will own your face.
Our kill order on 25 was:
Shaman: most important. this guy and his totems are INSANE. MUST spam Dispel/Purge nonstop.
Priest: very potent heals. Just keep him stunlocked and own his face.
Paladin: Annoying heals and decent dmg against raid.
Rogue: Most deadly mob in the whole area.
Shadow Priest: Annoying DoTs and Fears.
Warrior: Absolute nightmare if not kept kited/cc'd. Blade Storm WILL wipe you if you are not careful and he is exceptionally hard to CC.
Warlock: Wimp.
Hunter: Wimp.
I think that's all of them? If I forgot any they were after War and before Warlock.
The main idea is you MUST keep DPS mobs away from healers, burn down the Shaman as fast as possible while keeping other healers CC'd or stun locked.
My group had the best setup possible almost though due to 5 Shamans meaning 5 Tremor Totems so Fear did nothing.
Shamans are huge here, as are Druids and Rogues. The FoK spam is bad since it breaks CC's AND is being nerfed, so learning it is worthless.
Shaman pops Hero RIGHT at start, Druids Cyclone and Rogues lock up mobs. DK is good for pulling mobs out of groups, plus chains of ice.
Also see if your Priest can go Disc for Mass Dispel spamming since you have more than enough healing.
The fight is both a DPS race and strategy. You MUST down the Shaman in like, 20 seconds or it gets progressively harder. Keep 1 DPS on his Healing Stream Totem or it will heal tons and dispel MUST happen for HoT's and Earth Shield.
The fight is hard and VERY long (25man took 28 minutes) which leaves a LOT of room to be sloppy. If your guild is not tight and focused you will wipefest forever. This fight takes concentration and focus at all times to go to correct mobs, NEVER drop CC's and keep healers alive.
PvP trinket is also a plus.
Just the one tip which turned our fail into a win.
Offensive Dispelling
Get some shammies and priests and purge the crap out of the mobs. We saw on several occassions, the pally bubbling the priest and the priest healing himself and all the other mobs. That bubble needs to be dispelled and the heal interupted asap.
Offensive Dispelling
Get some shammies and priests and purge the crap out of the mobs. We saw on several occassions, the pally bubbling the priest and the priest healing himself and all the other mobs. That bubble needs to be dispelled and the heal interupted asap.
This fight was really pretty easy. Offensive dispelling is a must, especially when their shaman uses heroism. For 25man you need 5 or so on cc duty, 5-6 on heals/dispells and the rest focusing down targets. If you can focus assist well as a raid this fight is not hard at all. We 1shot it both weeks and only lost 1 this week(they don't like locks for some reason, lol), and only took 7.5min.
For 10man i would suggest you stay prot for more stuns/silences and higher survivability. And you taunting is really a form of cc, just rotate your hand of reckoning on mobs that tend to hit hard like the ret pally or arms warr.
Also wearing at least 1/2 pvp gear for the additional stam doesn't hurt at all, especially for your clothies.
A DK deathgripping a healer to your dps is a great way to start, but try and time it with some cc as well.
Also threat reducing abilities do work as the mobs basically reset their threat every 4-5sec or so, which is basically as long as you can taunt/kite a mob, although sometimes they will stick to you for longer after a taunt.
Edited, Aug 27th 2009 2:21pm by mahlerite
For 10man i would suggest you stay prot for more stuns/silences and higher survivability. And you taunting is really a form of cc, just rotate your hand of reckoning on mobs that tend to hit hard like the ret pally or arms warr.
Also wearing at least 1/2 pvp gear for the additional stam doesn't hurt at all, especially for your clothies.
A DK deathgripping a healer to your dps is a great way to start, but try and time it with some cc as well.
Also threat reducing abilities do work as the mobs basically reset their threat every 4-5sec or so, which is basically as long as you can taunt/kite a mob, although sometimes they will stick to you for longer after a taunt.
Edited, Aug 27th 2009 2:21pm by mahlerite
As a paladin you have a lot of tools you can use on this fight
If you see someone going after a cloth or even a healer you should taunt (not that it will last long but still)
Make sure everyone is using their CC, without a shaman purge and/or a priest mass dispel this fight can be a huge pain
Stay alive and react is pretty much what is pretty much what to tell people. BoP either a cloth or someone standing in a bladestorm/hellfire (<--lol at them after) or to save a healer
HoJ whenever you can, maybe send the gold for the glyph for this fight
Once you get over the fact it's not the standard tank and spank you should do fairly well
To me I wish more fights used this smart AI, maybe not to this extent but a smarter AI is a lot of fun
Try to lock down the rogue, ret pally or shadow priest as much as possible. you can 1v1 them while people burn down the kill target.
Edited, Aug 27th 2009 5:27pm by Smoopie
If you see someone going after a cloth or even a healer you should taunt (not that it will last long but still)
Make sure everyone is using their CC, without a shaman purge and/or a priest mass dispel this fight can be a huge pain
Stay alive and react is pretty much what is pretty much what to tell people. BoP either a cloth or someone standing in a bladestorm/hellfire (<--lol at them after) or to save a healer
HoJ whenever you can, maybe send the gold for the glyph for this fight
Once you get over the fact it's not the standard tank and spank you should do fairly well
To me I wish more fights used this smart AI, maybe not to this extent but a smarter AI is a lot of fun
Try to lock down the rogue, ret pally or shadow priest as much as possible. you can 1v1 them while people burn down the kill target.
Edited, Aug 27th 2009 5:27pm by Smoopie
SarionBelmont wrote:
While 10man is somewhat easy,
25man is arguably the 2nd hardest fight in the entire game(hardest being Algalon)
25man is arguably the 2nd hardest fight in the entire game(hardest being Algalon)
Wait, what?
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
SarionBelmont wrote:
While 10man is somewhat easy,
25man is arguably the 2nd hardest fight in the entire game(hardest being Algalon)
25man is arguably the 2nd hardest fight in the entire game(hardest being Algalon)
Wait, what?
Don't know about your server and your typical runnings but everywhere all I see is people unable to pass it on 25.
Please name something harder? Every other raid encounter is easy.
We one shot it, hell when we went in with our alt raid we one shot it.
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
We one shot it, hell when we went in with our alt raid we one shot it.
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
Negative, but it is rated as among the top 5 hardest game bosses of all time right now so I give it some respect.
This fight is not easy, maybe you had perfect setups both times and everyone did everything absolutely perfect. The average guild, does not. As I said, the mass majority of people doing ToC get stuck on champions. As I said before, tell me of a more difficult fight lol. Nothing else requires the coordination and specific setup.
SarionBelmont wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
We one shot it, hell when we went in with our alt raid we one shot it.
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
Negative, but it is rated as among the top 5 hardest game bosses of all time right now so I give it some respect
Link? I would like to see which site did that.
I am sure hardmode will be a nice fight, but easy mode is a joke. Mimiron 25 man easymode (before nerfs) was much harder than this, and even the easy 25 Ulduar hardmodes make this fight seem pretty easy.
Compared to actual content like M'uru, Algalon, Zero Lights, etc this fight isn't even on the radar. This has to be qualified by saying easy mode, since access to hardmode doesn't exist right now.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
This is what my guild have successfully done twice now (requires no CC!).
Use your rogue's wound poison and hunters aimed shot and effectively burn through any heals the most destructive dps have (for us it was rogue first week, warrior second week). We had issues the first week trying to keep healers CC'd and the like so we tried it this way and wont go back to CC ever for 10man.
Get your DK to deathgrip the focus target to your party then pop all cooldowns. Keep the focus target stunned as much as possible so your melee dps dont have to run around and be ready with the mass dispel if their happens to be a bubble thrown on the focus targeet.
Leave healers till last and prioritise the most dangerous first.
I would have to agree with bod. I by no means think of my guild as top of the line and we absolutely destroy this fight. It took us 2 attempts the first night it was released.
If this is hard for your guild you either lack the dps to kill the mobs fast enough. Or your strat is all wrong.
First thing is NO AREA OF EFFECT SPELLS SHOULD BE USED. Single target DPS only and let people CC as they can. Since CC is on PVP returns in this fight, breaking 1 sheep early can have very negative results.
People mention offensive dispelling, and that is key but something i havent seen mentioned, or not stressed enough is DEFENSIVE dispelling.
We raid with 2 holy paladins and between the 2 of us we rack up about 300 cleanses during the fight. We dont heal except with the occasional holy shock.
Every GCD is a cleanse, whether its a CC on a dps, or a SW:P. The more you are dispelling the more control you have over the fight.
CC is important and rotating your CC is a must. Using DKs to deathgrip and taunt the warrior away from healers and casters is a MUST. And having priests ready to MASS DISPELL Heroism/BoPs/Bubbles will save countless seconds.
Other than that. Kill all the dispelling classes first. Healers, followed by the paladins, than the shadow priest (if you have her).
After the initial 1-2 minutes, the fight turns into a joke.
If this is hard for your guild you either lack the dps to kill the mobs fast enough. Or your strat is all wrong.
First thing is NO AREA OF EFFECT SPELLS SHOULD BE USED. Single target DPS only and let people CC as they can. Since CC is on PVP returns in this fight, breaking 1 sheep early can have very negative results.
People mention offensive dispelling, and that is key but something i havent seen mentioned, or not stressed enough is DEFENSIVE dispelling.
We raid with 2 holy paladins and between the 2 of us we rack up about 300 cleanses during the fight. We dont heal except with the occasional holy shock.
Every GCD is a cleanse, whether its a CC on a dps, or a SW:P. The more you are dispelling the more control you have over the fight.
CC is important and rotating your CC is a must. Using DKs to deathgrip and taunt the warrior away from healers and casters is a MUST. And having priests ready to MASS DISPELL Heroism/BoPs/Bubbles will save countless seconds.
Other than that. Kill all the dispelling classes first. Healers, followed by the paladins, than the shadow priest (if you have her).
After the initial 1-2 minutes, the fight turns into a joke.
As stated, offensive dispels will make or break your attempts. Also another VERY important thing to realize is you have to dps them down fairly quickly. One mistake we made one week was to focus too much on cc'ing which turned our dps to crap. We went from wiping trying to CC just about every mob, to getting it down on the attempt were we only cc'd the most annoying ones (warrior, dk, and ret pally i believe) and then having everyone else focus down the targets one at a time. Taking 10minutes to kill a single target is very detrimental. You have to find a good balance of cc with keeping dps high.
Edited, Sep 1st 2009 5:41am by electricwizard
Edited, Sep 1st 2009 5:41am by electricwizard
41 posts
A key idea is to kill one of their healers fast .
For that you need to controll the other healer.
If you have a WArrior Tank send him as a healer controller.Normally he will stop 3 (+1 fear)out of 4 attempts to heal.(That is 15-20 seconds=Zero healing)
The good news is that the champions will most likely ignore him and aim for a softer target.IF the rest of the DPS focus on burning the remaining healer then normally you will beat this one heal that is casted (Use any debuf to the primary target for Healing reduction).
Rest tacticks for CC -ing spesific classes is highly dependable on what you have and what is the opposite team is built. Keep in mind that your key goal is to destroy their heals , while your healers are alive. Spending too much time in trying to controll DPS is not that optimal. CC the rogue if you see killing your healers . Kick the lock when his does his AOE, Run away if you get beaten, CAst fear when you get *** kicked, Stay still if you can do the job assigend to you and you are not targeted. Dont CC someone just because you can do it indipendently of the situation. CC for a reason cause every second counts and diminishing Returns will not allow you to recast the CC. So use everything you got when in true danger.
Melee AOE abilited can be used. CAster DPS aoe abilites cant.
It will take you about 1 minute or less to kill 1 healer. After that the fight is over....
Keep in mind that althouth this is a PvP fight it actually isnt ...
Keep in mind that you need to have all panic buttons free to ascape death, dont use CD foolishly
PvP trinkets for removing stuns/roots is good.
A DK deathgriping the primary target to your DPS is generally a good idea.
For that you need to controll the other healer.
If you have a WArrior Tank send him as a healer controller.Normally he will stop 3 (+1 fear)out of 4 attempts to heal.(That is 15-20 seconds=Zero healing)
The good news is that the champions will most likely ignore him and aim for a softer target.IF the rest of the DPS focus on burning the remaining healer then normally you will beat this one heal that is casted (Use any debuf to the primary target for Healing reduction).
Rest tacticks for CC -ing spesific classes is highly dependable on what you have and what is the opposite team is built. Keep in mind that your key goal is to destroy their heals , while your healers are alive. Spending too much time in trying to controll DPS is not that optimal. CC the rogue if you see killing your healers . Kick the lock when his does his AOE, Run away if you get beaten, CAst fear when you get *** kicked, Stay still if you can do the job assigend to you and you are not targeted. Dont CC someone just because you can do it indipendently of the situation. CC for a reason cause every second counts and diminishing Returns will not allow you to recast the CC. So use everything you got when in true danger.
Melee AOE abilited can be used. CAster DPS aoe abilites cant.
It will take you about 1 minute or less to kill 1 healer. After that the fight is over....
Keep in mind that althouth this is a PvP fight it actually isnt ...
Keep in mind that you need to have all panic buttons free to ascape death, dont use CD foolishly
PvP trinkets for removing stuns/roots is good.
A DK deathgriping the primary target to your DPS is generally a good idea.
appreciate all the advice. I think we've figured it out. finally got it down about a month ago... when I wasn't there. one and two shot the champs through anub from what I hear. got it again the next time I wasn't able to be there (last week)... and this week I refused to go and they got it again. 25 man version hasn't been as much of a problem so i'll still be doing that, but i'm done with 10 man ToC for now.
bodhisattva wrote:
SarionBelmont wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
We one shot it, hell when we went in with our alt raid we one shot it.
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
It is a fun fight but it is by no means even remotely challenging compared to real content. We don't get access to hardmode until a full clear of the instance so that will change but easy mode is pretty much entry level easy fight. Have you done Algalon?
Negative, but it is rated as among the top 5 hardest game bosses of all time right now so I give it some respect
Link? I would like to see which site did that.
I am sure hardmode will be a nice fight, but easy mode is a joke. Mimiron 25 man easymode (before nerfs) was much harder than this, and even the easy 25 Ulduar hardmodes make this fight seem pretty easy.
Compared to actual content like M'uru, Algalon, Zero Lights, etc this fight isn't even on the radar. This has to be qualified by saying easy mode, since access to hardmode doesn't exist right now.
Sigh... Bodhi.. while I respect you knowlege of the game and your skill... could you
PLEASE not brag about how much a wow God you are and you know... give helpful advice? That is what the Op is asking for he/she isn't asking
for your ego... and yea I know Im necro bumping a lil but It's this stuff that's
getting old to see.
Edited, Nov 2nd 2009 7:59pm by Devildawgs
TBH he is right though. I thought Faction Champions was hard when I first encountered it but now it is an incredibly simple that I would be shocked if we didnt one shot it.
EbanySalamonderiel wrote:
TBH he is right though. I thought Faction Champions was hard when I first encountered it but now it is an incredibly simple that I would be shocked if we didnt one shot it.
I know, but his post didn't offer any insight or encourgement, just a simple
"I'm better then you".
People need to learn that not everyone has the same guild or are at the
same point in progression in raiding that they are.
If you need a game to feel better then everyone else it exsists, it's called
FFXI, lets at... the very least offer advice and encouragement before we 'lol at people
for not being as good as teh "elite"
Bodhi has a complex that makes him assume the game is as easy for everyone as his top end guild. Woo. We care.
That aside, they nerfed FC so badly you can sleep-walk it on normals.
Heroic is still up there with Algalon, if not harder. Want to argue with it? Check wow-progress. Algalon has been downed by more guilds than TotG25. 10 is easy but 25 is a @%*(&!$fest. My guild does not have the numbers for 25 Heroic right now (too many gimps) but even 10 is a crapshot based on what YOU have in group and what THEY have.
If you struggle on NORMAL Faction champs now, go back to Uld and practice working as a team and gear up more.
If you struggle on HEROIC Faction champs now, welcome to the rest of the world lol.
That aside, they nerfed FC so badly you can sleep-walk it on normals.
Heroic is still up there with Algalon, if not harder. Want to argue with it? Check wow-progress. Algalon has been downed by more guilds than TotG25. 10 is easy but 25 is a @%*(&!$fest. My guild does not have the numbers for 25 Heroic right now (too many gimps) but even 10 is a crapshot based on what YOU have in group and what THEY have.
If you struggle on NORMAL Faction champs now, go back to Uld and practice working as a team and gear up more.
If you struggle on HEROIC Faction champs now, welcome to the rest of the world lol.
Coordination and focus is key, and there's some fun things I do on this fight no matter my spec.
Fun thing is, I almost enjoy this fight more as Protection than I do as retribution. Almost. The reason being taunting the rogue, DK, warrior or enhancement shammy. It's fun to keep them on me, rotating cooldowns to keep them stunned/slowed for the Diminishing Returns on taunts.
And let's not forget Divine Sacrifice, pop it at the right time, and even on 25-man I find Art of War procs as retribution can keep me alive, or as protection I just take the beating. Everybody needs to use all of their abilities, or this fight becomes much more difficult; normal DPS rotations will get you killed.
Just like in PVP, you need to stay flexible to use defensive cooldown and such things(BoP the healers if the rogue is being pissy, for example) wisely. It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of getting your raid to change their attitude and their basic goals for this fight. Druids can't just stand in one place spamming Lifebloom and Wild Growth, Priests have to do more than spam Flash Heal and Penance, Warlocks can't just rotate Chaos Bolt/Conflagrate/Incinerate, etc. etc. applying equally to all of the classes. You need to use things that normally you wouldn't in a PvE situation.
And I kinda gotta agree with Bodhi, this fight only gave me trouble (25-man, 10 was never an issue) the first time when my wife and I tried to pug it.
Fun thing is, I almost enjoy this fight more as Protection than I do as retribution. Almost. The reason being taunting the rogue, DK, warrior or enhancement shammy. It's fun to keep them on me, rotating cooldowns to keep them stunned/slowed for the Diminishing Returns on taunts.
And let's not forget Divine Sacrifice, pop it at the right time, and even on 25-man I find Art of War procs as retribution can keep me alive, or as protection I just take the beating. Everybody needs to use all of their abilities, or this fight becomes much more difficult; normal DPS rotations will get you killed.
Just like in PVP, you need to stay flexible to use defensive cooldown and such things(BoP the healers if the rogue is being pissy, for example) wisely. It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of getting your raid to change their attitude and their basic goals for this fight. Druids can't just stand in one place spamming Lifebloom and Wild Growth, Priests have to do more than spam Flash Heal and Penance, Warlocks can't just rotate Chaos Bolt/Conflagrate/Incinerate, etc. etc. applying equally to all of the classes. You need to use things that normally you wouldn't in a PvE situation.
And I kinda gotta agree with Bodhi, this fight only gave me trouble (25-man, 10 was never an issue) the first time when my wife and I tried to pug it.
Scholar
28 posts
Strange, in my experience 25man regular mode goes much more smoothly than 10-man, if for no other reason than responsibility obviously spread out more. 1 person failing in 10 = / = 1 person failing in 25. Generally speaking. And to the preceding poster, couldn't agree with you more. In my 25 mans I repeatedly call for any tank or dps that can taunt in their current "stance" (broadly covering warrior and druid...and then every such paladin or dk) to be using their taunt as often as they can. Situation excluded = bringing the warrior into the raid.
If the opposition has a healadin, we leave him for absolute last with an interrupter on him at all times. For a tree, we keep warlock on him til DR, then have a rogue run over. If they have a resto shammy, no matter which combo they have, we kill him first. In 10 man, we proceed to 1-2 painful melee (rogue and enh shammy with priority, with prot war on their warrior) and then if they have no healadin, we get the 2nd healer. If healadin, we just improvise from there on.
If the opposition has a healadin, we leave him for absolute last with an interrupter on him at all times. For a tree, we keep warlock on him til DR, then have a rogue run over. If they have a resto shammy, no matter which combo they have, we kill him first. In 10 man, we proceed to 1-2 painful melee (rogue and enh shammy with priority, with prot war on their warrior) and then if they have no healadin, we get the 2nd healer. If healadin, we just improvise from there on.
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