Spec
Now I'm actually in a unique place to be able to be already geared and ready to go for this, since I've been playing blood and have stacked arp out the wazoo. From what I've heard, as long as you have a good 18-19% passive arp, obliterate can actually hit harder than scourge strike in this patch. I haven't been in a raid to test it yet but I could see this.
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That's actually fairly interesting, even though the merit of it seems rather small to me; the difference between unholy DPS with SS and this seems quite negligable. On the other hand, it allows for an easier jump from any blood DPS spec into unholy, I guess.
Have you been able to give it a go in battlegrounds, raid, instances or anything at all yet?
P.S. What about replacing the DC glyph with the Pestilence one? Without the glyph of either SS or pestilence you're going to have to sacrifice one Obliterate and possibly one extra blood rune on keeping your diseases up every cycle. Seeing as you gear for armor pen I'd say the DC glyph isn't teriffic and not having to recast Ice Touch and Plague Strike (which sucks anyway because of your spec lacking Outbreak) each cycle means 1 additional Obliterate instead of the Blood Strike that is now Pestilence. Or does this ruin Desolation?
Have you been able to give it a go in battlegrounds, raid, instances or anything at all yet?
P.S. What about replacing the DC glyph with the Pestilence one? Without the glyph of either SS or pestilence you're going to have to sacrifice one Obliterate and possibly one extra blood rune on keeping your diseases up every cycle. Seeing as you gear for armor pen I'd say the DC glyph isn't teriffic and not having to recast Ice Touch and Plague Strike (which sucks anyway because of your spec lacking Outbreak) each cycle means 1 additional Obliterate instead of the Blood Strike that is now Pestilence. Or does this ruin Desolation?
Well the death coil glyph actually affects two sets of talents. It increases death coils, which then increases damage done by UB. Death coil is the #2 source of damage with this spec (first being oblit). I don't like testing pve specs in battlegrounds, really not a very good place.\
I did do a heroic AN with my first spec and absolutely destroyed the meters, far exceeding the damage of a fury warrior dual-wielding two aesir's edges. Threat was actually a problem, which is half the reason I picked up subversion, though the crit certainly doesn't hurt. I have about a 40% chance to crit with oblit self-buffed now. I can only imagine what I'd have with full raid buffs.
I did do a heroic AN with my first spec and absolutely destroyed the meters, far exceeding the damage of a fury warrior dual-wielding two aesir's edges. Threat was actually a problem, which is half the reason I picked up subversion, though the crit certainly doesn't hurt. I have about a 40% chance to crit with oblit self-buffed now. I can only imagine what I'd have with full raid buffs.
Alright, and how do you feel it compares to your old (unholy DPS?) spec? If it's a lot better I'm guessing this is getting really interesting. Thanks for the heads up on Death Coil btw, I haven't played since patch and completely forgot about UB.
I'd say keep us updated, depending on how well full unholy and full blood are going to be this might well be a new cookie cutter.
I'd say keep us updated, depending on how well full unholy and full blood are going to be this might well be a new cookie cutter.
Well I wouldn't get to used to it. I COMPLETELY expect them to break this spec. It's silly, you have to admit. I've explained it to mages like speccing full fire, but using frostbolt because frosbolt does more damage... as full fire. That coupled with the fact that you're unholy but gearing as if you were blood (since your 3 main sources of damage are Oblit, BS, and DC, and armor pen is really good for that). I think there is no way Blizzard will let this spec continue to work. I forsee them linking something to scourge strike, maybe UB or Desolation, where unless you use scourge strike your damage is pitiful. However, until that happens this spec rocks.
I might have better answers for your comparison questions after tonight's raid.
I might have better answers for your comparison questions after tonight's raid.
OK here is tonight's parse
OK Raid background. We have absolutely NONE of our tanks this week. Two are on vacation, and third couldn't make it. So we had people that aren't normally tanks, which lead to wipes and an inability to do hard mode attempts.
Goosedog actually had a similar spec focused around lots and lots and lots of death coils. His dps was a consistant 500+ above mine and while he's actually geared for haste while I have arp, you would think that would give ME the advantage in this spec, but the parses clearly show him on top.
I've changed my spec to his and am going to test out going for death coil spam. I really don't have much gear to change out at this point, but I can change a little, drop some arp for crit and ap.
Edited, Aug 10th 2009 10:26pm by Dilbrt
OK Raid background. We have absolutely NONE of our tanks this week. Two are on vacation, and third couldn't make it. So we had people that aren't normally tanks, which lead to wipes and an inability to do hard mode attempts.
Goosedog actually had a similar spec focused around lots and lots and lots of death coils. His dps was a consistant 500+ above mine and while he's actually geared for haste while I have arp, you would think that would give ME the advantage in this spec, but the parses clearly show him on top.
I've changed my spec to his and am going to test out going for death coil spam. I really don't have much gear to change out at this point, but I can change a little, drop some arp for crit and ap.
Edited, Aug 10th 2009 10:26pm by Dilbrt
Quote:
Goosedog actually had a similar spec focused around lots and lots and lots of death coils. His dps was a consistant 500+ above mine and while he's actually geared for haste while I have arp, you would think that would give ME the advantage in this spec, but the parses clearly show him on top.
I'm by no means an unholy expert. I hate that tree, but I was under the impression that ArPen was best for Blood really. Since blood uses pretty much all melee strikes, the ArPen does well with HS and DS. With unholy being a lot of DoTs and pet damage, ArPen wasn't nearly as useful. (Do pets get ArPen bonuses?)
The haste is interesting though, but maybe in unholy presence it scales better (if that is the presence you both were using). Wouldn't think haste to be that great.
Have you tried 2pts in Icy Talons vs Lichborne/Icy Reach? Not that 2 in IT would help that much, but if you stack haste, have that and use UP, it might all go together nice. Also not sure how much help lichborne and IR would be vs. a little extra haste. No clue though, just a thought.
Quote:
I was under the impression that ArPen was best for Blood really.
The OP was commenting on using Obliterate instead of Scourge Strike, and how ArP would be more beneficial to this specific spec.
Haste is lack luster no matter which spec you are. Albeit maybe dual wield may get some added benefit from it now. My 2nd hand discarded haste gear I'm currently wearing is the best gear I have available. But that's what happens when your a 2nd in a raid guild due to time restraints... You get the cast offs when others get the better gear. I'm geared like a fury warrior... lol.
devioususer wrote:
Haste is lack luster no matter which spec you are.
That used to be my thinking as well, then Goosedog told me that pets get 100% of your haste. His ghoul did a good 6% more damage than mine, partly due to him having a bit more strength, but mostly due to him having a good amount of haste and me having almost none.
"deviosuser" wrote:
The OP was commenting on using Obliterate instead of Scourge Strike, and how ArP would be more beneficial to this specific spec.
What I meant was that Obliterate would be the only ability affected by ArPen as unholy vs Blood's 2 biggest strikes in HS and DS (unless pets receive ArPen bonus). With unholy being a lot of DoTs, pets, and magic damage, ArPen would be minimumally effective. And now with Dilbrt's info on haste bonus going to pets, seems haste isn't bad for unholy.
deviosuser wrote:
The OP was commenting on using Obliterate instead of Scourge Strike, and how ArP would be more beneficial to this specific spec.
What I meant was that Obliterate would be the only ability affected by ArPen as unholy vs Blood's 2 biggest strikes in HS and DS (unless pets receive ArPen bonus). With unholy being a lot of DoTs, pets, and magic damage, ArPen would be minimumally effective. And now with Dilbrt's info on haste bonus going to pets, seems haste isn't bad for unholy.
Is it me, or is 6% more ghoul damage kind of incredibly sucky? I'm not quite sure anymore, but I think mine does somewhere between 300 and 700 DPS. Assuming 700, 6% is just an additional 42 DPS. Heck, assume your gear is insanely awesome and your ghoul alone is pulling 1500 DPS. 6% there is only 90ish extra DPS. That seems like a really paltry amount for stacking a stat that otherwise barely has any benefit.
I realize you said '6% more damage than mine', but judging from your posts your gears are fairly equal and you are both pretty much fully unholy specced. Who'se missing something here, me or you?
I realize you said '6% more damage than mine', but judging from your posts your gears are fairly equal and you are both pretty much fully unholy specced. Who'se missing something here, me or you?
Haste still sucks for 2h. Even if your ghoul gets 100%, your losing itemization of better dps stats in favor of it. That's why it sucks.
We do not channel spells or have long casts. We don't get that much of a benefit from faster white damage for ourselves and our ghouls.
I still don't know if D/w gets any serious benefit from it either.
We do not channel spells or have long casts. We don't get that much of a benefit from faster white damage for ourselves and our ghouls.
I still don't know if D/w gets any serious benefit from it either.
I'm not saying stack haste a the expense of everything else, that would be like stacking arp or crit at the expense of everything else. However, before I stayed as far away as I could from things with haste on it, now I don't mind it as much.
Anyway, after a brief stint of going back SS, I decided to try yet another version of this. BCB, while good, is my smallest source of damage over a long fight and my math (though it might not be as good as some that crunch numbers all the time) showed that I will lose less overall damage from this than dropping a point elsewhere. I could move a point in desolation, but that would decrease the damage done by my death coils.
I just didn't like spending so many throwaway points in frost just to get chill of the grave.
Edited, Aug 25th 2009 3:24pm by Dilbrt
Anyway, after a brief stint of going back SS, I decided to try yet another version of this. BCB, while good, is my smallest source of damage over a long fight and my math (though it might not be as good as some that crunch numbers all the time) showed that I will lose less overall damage from this than dropping a point elsewhere. I could move a point in desolation, but that would decrease the damage done by my death coils.
I just didn't like spending so many throwaway points in frost just to get chill of the grave.
Edited, Aug 25th 2009 3:24pm by Dilbrt
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