Ok, already; since it seems to be a popular opinion (and I'm not disputing the fact) that I'm "not geared" decent... I figure I should know what everyone else views as a minimum DPS for an Affliction lock at lvl 70... For lack of a better universal opponent, and due the the variances of resist/elites/etc, I've been using the "master's training dummy" (no that ISN'T ME LOL) as a basic opponent to test on. Please let me know what I should be aiming for in order to be considered "of value" in an average group situation...
Oh and if nobody has any hard numbers, I'll just aim for 10k/dps and then everyone will be happy! LOL 8]
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lvl 70 aff lock dpsFollow
Not that I'm any mark of excellence or an exemplar of what to shoot for but I was doing around 600-615 dps at that point just running around questing I think. I don't know about dummies or 5-mans.
By 70 you should have probably replaced most, if not all, of your Outland gear with quest gear from early Northrend which should make a marked improvement over Outland dps.
For example, your hands & waist are lvl 54 and waaaaaay out of date. Bracers lvl 52, head & chest lvl 60 . . .
Your first trinket is lvl 47 and, frankly, seems completely useless to me. 2% chance that if you get hit you get a holy shield? As an affliction lock you really shouldn't BE getting hit, or at least rarely. The 2nd trinket's not bad - I remember having that - but if you're serious about increasing dps the "find and upgrade" shows a bunch of cool stuff to shoot for.
I see you have 2 70 epic rings loaded with resiliance which suggests you PVP I guess? If that's the case you ought to say so in your post because that's a whole other game. If you're not PVPing resilience is pretty much pointless I think. Or at least there are a lot better options.
As for talents . . . difference of opinions I guess. I see you have ALL your points in affliciton. But no improved Lifetap? And personally I would say the 4 points in imp Fear + Howl of Terror are a waste but playstyles may differ I guess. I've never used either of them except *maybe* 3 or 4 times in my 78 levels as a panic button. I would also say Grim Reach & Eradication are iffy at best. For myself, I put points into Demonlogy for Fel Synergy & Demonic Aegis - I know a lot of people put them in Destro to buff up Shadowbolts. I think either would be better than the current speccing.
But then, I don't really know what *THE* affliciton spec is supposed to be and just sort of do my own thing. Affliction seems to mostly be for soloing/questing/leveling anyway though so I guess it doesn't really matter. Whatever works for you. Apparently all the cool kids (i.e. serious raiders etc.) go Destro for heroics/raids/et al.
By 70 you should have probably replaced most, if not all, of your Outland gear with quest gear from early Northrend which should make a marked improvement over Outland dps.
For example, your hands & waist are lvl 54 and waaaaaay out of date. Bracers lvl 52, head & chest lvl 60 . . .
Your first trinket is lvl 47 and, frankly, seems completely useless to me. 2% chance that if you get hit you get a holy shield? As an affliction lock you really shouldn't BE getting hit, or at least rarely. The 2nd trinket's not bad - I remember having that - but if you're serious about increasing dps the "find and upgrade" shows a bunch of cool stuff to shoot for.
I see you have 2 70 epic rings loaded with resiliance which suggests you PVP I guess? If that's the case you ought to say so in your post because that's a whole other game. If you're not PVPing resilience is pretty much pointless I think. Or at least there are a lot better options.
As for talents . . . difference of opinions I guess. I see you have ALL your points in affliciton. But no improved Lifetap? And personally I would say the 4 points in imp Fear + Howl of Terror are a waste but playstyles may differ I guess. I've never used either of them except *maybe* 3 or 4 times in my 78 levels as a panic button. I would also say Grim Reach & Eradication are iffy at best. For myself, I put points into Demonlogy for Fel Synergy & Demonic Aegis - I know a lot of people put them in Destro to buff up Shadowbolts. I think either would be better than the current speccing.
But then, I don't really know what *THE* affliciton spec is supposed to be and just sort of do my own thing. Affliction seems to mostly be for soloing/questing/leveling anyway though so I guess it doesn't really matter. Whatever works for you. Apparently all the cool kids (i.e. serious raiders etc.) go Destro for heroics/raids/et al.
Pantherfern wrote:
As for talents . . . difference of opinions I guess. I see you have ALL your points in affliciton. But no improved Lifetap? And personally I would say the 4 points in imp Fear + Howl of Terror are a waste but playstyles may differ I guess. I've never used either of them except *maybe* 3 or 4 times in my 78 levels as a panic button. I would also say Grim Reach & Eradication are iffy at best. For myself, I put points into Demonlogy for Fel Synergy & Demonic Aegis - I know a lot of people put them in Destro to buff up Shadowbolts. I think either would be better than the current speccing.
I live on instant HoT sometimes. Used it more in BC, but it's still very handy as an Oh **** button. Don't have Imp. Fear, I want them to get as far as possible from me because Fear breaks so easily now. Grim Reach I dropped from my spec I think, it was kind of handy before but there are better talents now. Eradication isn't that bad IMO. Most put points in Destro for Bane. Imp. SB is okay I think it was buffed to affect DoTs now because you can crit with them (some of them). Demonic Aegis is nice, the bonus damage from spirit you get from Fel Armour. But not worth the talent points put in. Unless you've got a hardcore spirit set. Now that's a problem.
15 posts
Responce To "Pantherfern":
As far as my equipment goes, I've aknowledged that much of it is outdated and I intend of correcting the situation; that's all I have to say about that (lol guess which movie THAT's from?). I kind of swap between PvP, Soloing, and groups depending on what I'm in the mood for; so I pretty much try to have a versatile skill set. The fear/reach talents really help in PvP situations. I'm not too sure why there's a BIG calling about improving lifetap spells, mine works just fine for me as is and is easily countered by Haunt/drain-life spells. Perhaps I am missing some important reason to improve it.
In general, about my talents, I was full Demo for most of my leveling and decided to try out other specs to see how they compare. While I have noticed Dest being VERY popular amongst most locks(along with the imp pet), I have trouble getting myself to give it a fair shot. To be honest, most of my talents in aff were just spent so I could try out Haunt and the other ending talents of Aff.
I plan to focus more of my time into improving my DPS via equipment, talents, etc... However, I was just looking for some rough numbers to aim for. Assuming your quote of 600+dps is accurate gauge for lvl70 LOCK vs avg lvl70 MOB, then I seem to be on track (I've been holding at around 700-800dps vs lvl 70 dummy). But maybe I should find a better test subject. I always see lvl 80 DPSers bragging about 3-4kDPS So I'm just estimating I should aim for 1.5-2kDPS as a goal (I'm not sure how the level inflation works).
Thank you much for your input.
Responce To "manicshock":
I'm thinking mostly to just ask you if you have any input about why destro seems so popular? Is "Bane" really THAT good (guess I'll have to read up on it)? My main argument about destruction is, although I'm sure it is completely wrong, "If I go Dest Spec, I may as well have made a fire mage.". In spite of the obvious ignorance of that statement, I simply have trouble getting past it (I have a major liking to DoTs).
In any case, do you maybe have some general numbers I can shoot for on my DPS, while I'm trying out new skills/armor?
FYI: I may have forgot to mention that I do not yet own WOLK, I plan to get it in the next few weeks; So, currently I'm looking for DPS numbers for BC (but would also like to know what to aim for after I get WOLK).
As far as my equipment goes, I've aknowledged that much of it is outdated and I intend of correcting the situation; that's all I have to say about that (lol guess which movie THAT's from?). I kind of swap between PvP, Soloing, and groups depending on what I'm in the mood for; so I pretty much try to have a versatile skill set. The fear/reach talents really help in PvP situations. I'm not too sure why there's a BIG calling about improving lifetap spells, mine works just fine for me as is and is easily countered by Haunt/drain-life spells. Perhaps I am missing some important reason to improve it.
In general, about my talents, I was full Demo for most of my leveling and decided to try out other specs to see how they compare. While I have noticed Dest being VERY popular amongst most locks(along with the imp pet), I have trouble getting myself to give it a fair shot. To be honest, most of my talents in aff were just spent so I could try out Haunt and the other ending talents of Aff.
I plan to focus more of my time into improving my DPS via equipment, talents, etc... However, I was just looking for some rough numbers to aim for. Assuming your quote of 600+dps is accurate gauge for lvl70 LOCK vs avg lvl70 MOB, then I seem to be on track (I've been holding at around 700-800dps vs lvl 70 dummy). But maybe I should find a better test subject. I always see lvl 80 DPSers bragging about 3-4kDPS So I'm just estimating I should aim for 1.5-2kDPS as a goal (I'm not sure how the level inflation works).
Thank you much for your input.
Responce To "manicshock":
manicshock wrote:
Most put points in Destro for Bane.
I'm thinking mostly to just ask you if you have any input about why destro seems so popular? Is "Bane" really THAT good (guess I'll have to read up on it)? My main argument about destruction is, although I'm sure it is completely wrong, "If I go Dest Spec, I may as well have made a fire mage.". In spite of the obvious ignorance of that statement, I simply have trouble getting past it (I have a major liking to DoTs).
In any case, do you maybe have some general numbers I can shoot for on my DPS, while I'm trying out new skills/armor?
FYI: I may have forgot to mention that I do not yet own WOLK, I plan to get it in the next few weeks; So, currently I'm looking for DPS numbers for BC (but would also like to know what to aim for after I get WOLK).
The problem with the question is that when most of us were 70 we were working with completely different talent trees so we are thinking about how much dps we put out then. I remember you wanted to be around 600dps for kara. I once helped a friend with prince and the kara/heroic geared tank got pissed at me cause I was doing 1,100 dps and he couldn't keep up. Twas a different game then, now tanks rarely have aggro problems and with the new talents people can put out more damage, the only problem being you can't reach the 20/21st point in your secondary tree. Because most people don't run the heroic 70 dungeons on their way to Northrend it's hard to tell anymore, but I'd shoot for around 1,000 in heroic gear.
The reason why the dps numbers vary so greatly between 70 and 80 is because the gear upgrades are huge. At lvl 60 a 1-hand dagger off the first boss in MC gave you 20 spell power, at 70 a staff off the Curator in Kara gave you 185 spell power and some hit, and at 80 a 1hand dropped by the second boss in 10-man Naxx gives you 408 spell power plus crit and haste.
As for talents, it really dpends on what your doing while at 70. If your soloing stuff then any spec is good, you could have no spec and not have many problems with normal quests. If your running dungeons and raids then a talent like Bane is excellent. Turning a 3 second cast into a 2.5 second cast increases the amount of times you can cast it during a boss fight. Let's say you get a window to shoot shadowbolts for 15 seconds, with talents you can shoot off 6 while with-out you can only shoot off 5, so basically every 6th shadowbolt is free. Even with all the stuff going on with the affliction rotation your shadowbolts will be doing a fair chunk of damage and any chance to get more of them is a good thing. Plus the reduced time helps with the rotation seeing as how you don't have alot of time between applying dots so you want to get as many off as you can.
Destruction spec is kinda like a fire mage, however it relys upon cooldowns just like affliction does. If your immolate goes down your damage takes a dive, like haunt, and you need to pop conflag and chaos bolt whenever you can just like putting up UA as soon as it drops. There's actually a bit more to it than shooting out fireballs over and over again. I didn't like the idea of a fire mage either but once I tried it I enjoyed the way the tree works, and if you don't you can always respec.
As far as gear goes, spell damage is king. If your doing raids keep a few items with hit on them so you can get closer to the hit cap, 202 with-out talents, but for everything else go for spell damage. Haste is hard to get until lvl 70 end game and tends to be badly itemized before then and while crit is nice it's better to be hunting for a bit more spell damage than a bit more crit. Use this to find what quests and dungeons drop gear for you as your dreadmist items are doing nothing for your damage and your felheart are doing very little(Keep them around though, I still run some guild runs wearing my dreadmist set just for the hell of it). Don't worry too much about your stamina or intellect as you don't need much to survive, 8,000 raid buffed, but keep an eye out for spirit.
The reason why the dps numbers vary so greatly between 70 and 80 is because the gear upgrades are huge. At lvl 60 a 1-hand dagger off the first boss in MC gave you 20 spell power, at 70 a staff off the Curator in Kara gave you 185 spell power and some hit, and at 80 a 1hand dropped by the second boss in 10-man Naxx gives you 408 spell power plus crit and haste.
As for talents, it really dpends on what your doing while at 70. If your soloing stuff then any spec is good, you could have no spec and not have many problems with normal quests. If your running dungeons and raids then a talent like Bane is excellent. Turning a 3 second cast into a 2.5 second cast increases the amount of times you can cast it during a boss fight. Let's say you get a window to shoot shadowbolts for 15 seconds, with talents you can shoot off 6 while with-out you can only shoot off 5, so basically every 6th shadowbolt is free. Even with all the stuff going on with the affliction rotation your shadowbolts will be doing a fair chunk of damage and any chance to get more of them is a good thing. Plus the reduced time helps with the rotation seeing as how you don't have alot of time between applying dots so you want to get as many off as you can.
Destruction spec is kinda like a fire mage, however it relys upon cooldowns just like affliction does. If your immolate goes down your damage takes a dive, like haunt, and you need to pop conflag and chaos bolt whenever you can just like putting up UA as soon as it drops. There's actually a bit more to it than shooting out fireballs over and over again. I didn't like the idea of a fire mage either but once I tried it I enjoyed the way the tree works, and if you don't you can always respec.
As far as gear goes, spell damage is king. If your doing raids keep a few items with hit on them so you can get closer to the hit cap, 202 with-out talents, but for everything else go for spell damage. Haste is hard to get until lvl 70 end game and tends to be badly itemized before then and while crit is nice it's better to be hunting for a bit more spell damage than a bit more crit. Use this to find what quests and dungeons drop gear for you as your dreadmist items are doing nothing for your damage and your felheart are doing very little(Keep them around though, I still run some guild runs wearing my dreadmist set just for the hell of it). Don't worry too much about your stamina or intellect as you don't need much to survive, 8,000 raid buffed, but keep an eye out for spirit.
Pantherfern wrote:
As an affliction lock you really shouldn't BE getting hit, or at least rarely.
You've just invalidated anything you have to say about the Warlock class. A drain tanking Affliction Warlock is one of the most, if not the most efficient leveling style/spec/class in the game. Drain tanking involves the Warlock being the tank, not the pet. If you were referring to group situations, no caster DPS should be getting hit. I'm not even going to bother with the holes in the rest of your post.
You want a level 70 build that will work with solo, grouping and PvP? Here. The points in Lifetap are debatable at your level but at 80 it's much more efficient than Dark Pact. IHoT is a must for BGs or even if you play on a PvP server. Improved fear simply isn't worth it. Most classes have some type of ranged attacks so the 30% loss of movement speed is a waste of two points unless you're building a spec based purely on PvP.
As far as gear, go buy some Northrend greens from the AH, they should be dirt cheap as most are being sold as DE fodder. Most of them are on par with BC blues and purples.
Giving you numbers on what your DPS should be is hard due the constant class changes and new talents that were introduced with the new expansion.
crlowe wrote:
I always see lvl 80 DPSers bragging about 3-4kDPS So I'm just estimating I should aim for 1.5-2kDPS as a goal (I'm not sure how the level inflation works).
Not going to happen at 70. I was doing 1.5-2K walking into level 80 heroics. In all honesty, your DPS doesn't matter at 70 since it's no longer end game. As long as you're not being carried, your fine. My only advice would be to adjust your spec a little and buy some gear. And to be perfectly honest, your spec isn't that bad.
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