Now I have a deep love for you guys. Shamans are my #1 hunt for a group. Healer, DPS, I don't care. I want a Shammy.
Earlier today though I was quite perturbed. I invited a DPS Shammy and we got going. Shammy was #1DPS, doing about 2600 on single mobs, 3.5k-4k on groups(about 100-200 above me). Then I notice, the Shaman isn't dropping any totems, at all.
Now Heroism is nice, but I invite a Shaman for Totems. That's what makes a Shaman unique. If I wanted a caster DPS, well, I'd invite another Mage. I wanted a Shaman for +SP, +MP5, and +Spell haste(Pally, healing Druid, myself and MP5 for Hunter)). Not to mention the Earth totem which is a HUGE boost of Str/Agi for our Pally(str) and Hunter(agi). I mention it occasionally and on a boss she whines saying she knows how to play. Granted, on that boss she brags about her 4k DPS.. but I look and the rest of the group is doing good DPS, but not amazing.
I bring it up again and the Shaman says "I'll drop totems when I feel the GCD will benefit us more than my attacks".
Wow. Primadonna much? That aside I wondered if this was a normal thing now. Since when was a little single DPS better than a whole groups performance? Let alone having to give up Kings for BoW since Shaman was too lazy to drop a totem. A whole click pre-fight must've been too hard.
Please tell me this is not normal for you wonderous people.
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Totems worthless?!Follow
I'll skip dropping totems occasionally, on really easy trash pulls where I'd have to pick them up and move them immediately, but for larger pulls and bosses they're always down (unless someone pulls early). It's not that hard to drop down the totems before combat--I'd say you just ended up with a fairly clueless shammy.
Yeah it was bosses and double group pulls. Good to know it was a less than normal thing. Just noticed a lot of hidden rules popping up lately and was hoping that wasn't one.
As a resto sham I may or may not drop totems depending on the pull. If it's a quick trash pull I won't waste the mana. I may even just drop one or two totems depending on the group make up.
On a boss, however, I'll drop everything I can that will help out the group. The only thing is is that depending on the group make up, healing stream and wrath of air may be the only totems that give any sort of boost to the group (unless you have ToW).
/vent on
As far as your thread title goes, yes, totems are becoming rather worthless in a 25 man raid setting as many of them do not stack with other buffs that don't have a range on them.
Strengh of Earth - Horn of Winter
Manaspring - Wisdom
Flame Tounge - ToW
Windfury Totem - Icy Talons
The last two are a hit and miss. We happen to always have a ele sham and we have 2 frost DKs in the guild that will raid. This means that I will use Healing Stream and Wrath of Air only through a entire Ulduar run (save for some cleansing totem drops on Freya trash and Yogg).
What this lead to was our guild having me go ele so we could stack 4 pallys in the group for Ulduar for sanctuary, kings, might, and wisdom. A ele sham can cover the buffs of the entire shaman class now.
/vent off
In closing, the dude should have dropped totems if the fight was going to be longer then 20 seconds.
On a boss, however, I'll drop everything I can that will help out the group. The only thing is is that depending on the group make up, healing stream and wrath of air may be the only totems that give any sort of boost to the group (unless you have ToW).
/vent on
As far as your thread title goes, yes, totems are becoming rather worthless in a 25 man raid setting as many of them do not stack with other buffs that don't have a range on them.
Strengh of Earth - Horn of Winter
Manaspring - Wisdom
Flame Tounge - ToW
Windfury Totem - Icy Talons
The last two are a hit and miss. We happen to always have a ele sham and we have 2 frost DKs in the guild that will raid. This means that I will use Healing Stream and Wrath of Air only through a entire Ulduar run (save for some cleansing totem drops on Freya trash and Yogg).
What this lead to was our guild having me go ele so we could stack 4 pallys in the group for Ulduar for sanctuary, kings, might, and wisdom. A ele sham can cover the buffs of the entire shaman class now.
/vent off
In closing, the dude should have dropped totems if the fight was going to be longer then 20 seconds.
DarkHybridX wrote:
Strengh of Earth - Horn of Winter
Manaspring - Wisdom
Actually these two have been stacking for us. As you mentioned, the only thing is that it doesn't give the range for movement, but I have yet to see these totems not stack with the above.
3 posts
I am also a resto shaman, and I drop at least 2 totems almost every fight. Mana, and either Str/Agi or +sp depending on which dps type there is more of. The GCD argument by your lazy sham is irrelevant, because they could be dropped before a fight. Also, when I am specced for 5 mans, i have extra points that go into Totemic Focus, which makes their cost nearly negligible. In fact, my manaspring only has to be down for about 11 seconds for it to pay itself off. Totems make a shaman a shaman, and although it may be impractical to keep 4 on the floor 24/7, there is no real reason to skip them entirely (especially as dps, why not put dps totems down to boost yourself??)
Duchess xNocturnalSunx wrote:
DarkHybridX wrote:
Strengh of Earth - Horn of Winter
Manaspring - Wisdom
Actually these two have been stacking for us. As you mentioned, the only thing is that it doesn't give the range for movement, but I have yet to see these totems not stack with the above.
They don't stack. If they have been stacking for you it is either A.) your mistake since you see both buffs and think they're stacking, but they're not, B.) a display bug where both buffs are showing up even though you're only getting the benefit of one or C.) just a flat-out bug. Blizzard has made it abundantly clear that these two buffs are supposed to be synonomous and mutually exclusive, and as recently as last week, Death Knights in our raids could not even cast Horn of Winter when a Strength of Earth Totem was down, nor could Paladins Bless people with Wisdom when Healing Stream was down.
Must be a bug then, because a pally had popped wisdom on me. I was messing around with my character screen and dropped mana spring and noticed that my mp5 went up even more.
Either way, I think the whole not stacking thing is stupid. Mainly takes away from shammies to drop certain totems (if there's multiple shamans in the group). But meh, whatever.
I'll just continue dropping whatever totems I can until I have no totems to be of use anymore
Either way, I think the whole not stacking thing is stupid. Mainly takes away from shammies to drop certain totems (if there's multiple shamans in the group). But meh, whatever.
I'll just continue dropping whatever totems I can until I have no totems to be of use anymore
I'd heard the sometimes stacking had to do with one or the other of the buffs being improved--improved BoW, that sort of thing.
I haven't really bothered finding out myself, since it's not intended it's not something I want to get used to.
I was wondering if Gaudion was still around!
I haven't really bothered finding out myself, since it's not intended it's not something I want to get used to.
I was wondering if Gaudion was still around!
Well from what I had read, some people apparently have been dropping "lesser" leveled totems to have both. I don't know if that works as well, but I guess it's worth a try since it technically isn't overrighting anything. Who knows.
Quote:
Must be a bug then, because a pally had popped wisdom on me. I was messing around with my character screen and dropped mana spring and noticed that my mp5 went up even more.
If you have imp wisdom and drop imp manaspring then nothing will happen. If you have regular wisdom and drop imp manaspring then your MP5 will go up some but it also replaces the wisdom and you lose the buff (which is being fixed next patch). This was the same problem that was going on with might and battle shout.
There was a bug, however, for the first week or 2 after 3.1 came out that you could stack imp manaspring and regular wisdom still, but that was already fixed.
Quote:
Well from what I had read, some people apparently have been dropping "lesser" leveled totems to have both. I don't know if that works as well, but I guess it's worth a try since it technically isn't overrighting anything. Who knows.
Just tested this and it also doesn't work. If you drop any totem that gives less or the same MP5 that wisdom is giving you then nothing happens. If it gives more then you lose the wisdom buff. If you have a totem out and a pally tries to buff you with a wisdom that will give you less or the same amount of MP5 as your totem they will get the "a more powerful spell is already active" message.
Edited, May 15th 2009 11:57pm by DarkHybridX
Good to know, thanks Dark for trying it out.
I still think it's stupid
I still think it's stupid
Quote:
I still think it's stupid Smiley: lol
You and me both, trust me. I have started more then one rants about it in vent since the patch. On the upside though. There's more then enough raid damage in Ulduar that water shield is plenty enough to keep my mana topped off with smart healing. So it's not like the nerf hurt us, it's just the principle of the matter :)
Oh definitely. I hardly ever have mana issue as resto, and when I'm elemental, my mana bar seriously doesn't move. It's, as you said, just the princple of the thing.
3 posts
Did not relize that horn and SoE did'nt stack.. damn
I really was not happy with the idea of the Mana Spring totem and BoW changes at first but find it to be a huge improvement in the fact that Healing Stream Totem makes since now. If you have not yet tried it the glyph for it is worth considering in the raid scene.
Resto I drop HS>raid MS>5man "i like kings" unless there is a second pally, WoA, FT, Stoneskin since that seems to still stack with the pally aura
Elem W, WoA, mana spring only in 5 man if there is not a differnt option Stoneskin or SoE mostly SS though i dont both with HS on elem with out the imp. its not worth it personally
but yea 5-man totems are still worth it... 99% of the time in raids you get to use Wraith and Healing Stream.. and thats about it pretty sure though in 25 man raids a lock will overwrite wraith right?
I really was not happy with the idea of the Mana Spring totem and BoW changes at first but find it to be a huge improvement in the fact that Healing Stream Totem makes since now. If you have not yet tried it the glyph for it is worth considering in the raid scene.
Resto I drop HS>raid MS>5man "i like kings" unless there is a second pally, WoA, FT, Stoneskin since that seems to still stack with the pally aura
Elem W, WoA, mana spring only in 5 man if there is not a differnt option Stoneskin or SoE mostly SS though i dont both with HS on elem with out the imp. its not worth it personally
but yea 5-man totems are still worth it... 99% of the time in raids you get to use Wraith and Healing Stream.. and thats about it pretty sure though in 25 man raids a lock will overwrite wraith right?
I'm not a BoW person myself either. Mainly due to me not having mana issues, so I usually ask for Kings instead.
As for the lock comment, kumachanburu, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying (as I don't know what buffs locks bring).
As far as I know, the only thing that would override WoA is ToW.
As for the lock comment, kumachanburu, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying (as I don't know what buffs locks bring).
As far as I know, the only thing that would override WoA is ToW.
3 posts
http://www.wowwiki.com/Demonic_Pact
Problem is that one scales and Locks get alot of SP stat mods from demo tree if i remember correctly did not know it was only 12secs when pet crits though so ToW should probley stay down to fill the gaps but... 2 demo locks and it might make ToW just dropped for the glyph... sad
Problem is that one scales and Locks get alot of SP stat mods from demo tree if i remember correctly did not know it was only 12secs when pet crits though so ToW should probley stay down to fill the gaps but... 2 demo locks and it might make ToW just dropped for the glyph... sad
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