When I try to attack players or totems I keep getting "Immune". Anyone else having the same problem?
Edit: Exorcism is also no longer working on players. It just gives an error.
So now ret got less PvP viability than before the patch?
The stun can only be spec for 40-sec c/d instead of 30.
Exorcism doesn't work so it doesn't count.
Hand of Reck isn't working so that's a loss.
I haven't seen anything on the patch notes about this.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 2:10am by xorq
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Hand of Reckoning no longer working?Follow
Hand of Reckoning is a taunt. Pretty sure that totems are immune to taunts. And if something is already attacking you, taunts dont work, so perhaps the tiny amount of damage done isnt applied.
I know what hand of reckoning is.
It's a very useful spell in PvP with a lot of uses. There's countless uses for a free 30yd spell that does small damage. To list a few...
killing totems.
Vindication procs.
Vengeance procs.
spending charges on dk bone shield and other similar shields.
getting into combat (immunity to sap)
putting someone into combat. (prevents out of combat spells)
interrupting bandage and mount.
The list keeps going.
But now all I get is "Immune" except against pets. I haven't seen anything on the patch notes mentioning this change.
Am I the only person with this problem or is it happening to everyone?
Also anyone know if it's a bug or if it's intentended? Has there been a comment from blizz about it?
>_< As of now I'm pretty sure that if I make a ticket the GM will answer telling me "Taunt doesn't work on players". /spit
It's a very useful spell in PvP with a lot of uses. There's countless uses for a free 30yd spell that does small damage. To list a few...
killing totems.
Vindication procs.
Vengeance procs.
spending charges on dk bone shield and other similar shields.
getting into combat (immunity to sap)
putting someone into combat. (prevents out of combat spells)
interrupting bandage and mount.
The list keeps going.
But now all I get is "Immune" except against pets. I haven't seen anything on the patch notes mentioning this change.
Am I the only person with this problem or is it happening to everyone?
Also anyone know if it's a bug or if it's intentended? Has there been a comment from blizz about it?
>_< As of now I'm pretty sure that if I make a ticket the GM will answer telling me "Taunt doesn't work on players". /spit
Quote:
It's a very useful spell in PvP with a lot of uses
Except it doesn't work in PvP at all.
Well, even though it does no damage and says immune, it apparently still puts your target in combat.
i wonder if while fixing the penetrating Divine Shield bug, they just broke the whole spell for pvp. does it still taunt pets?
found it. full of fail. im kinda tired of having my main get jerked around week to week. L2Design:
We made a change in the 3.1.1 patch to prevent Exorcism from being used on players. We didn’t announce this change ahead of time because we were trying to get the tooltip changed at the same time to reduce confusion. We still plan on getting the tooltip updated ASAP. Exorcism’s use in PvE has not changed at this time.
Going with a “not on players†solution is not ideal and we will be re-designing how the ability works in a future patch (the plan is sooner rather than later). We don’t like for PvE and PvP mechanics to work differently when we can avoid it. We also don’t like for a major damaging ability to be excluded from the PvP game. However, we thought this had become a balance issue serious enough to address at this time.
We shifted around paladin damage for 3.1 trying to increase sustained damage while reducing burst damage. Unfortunately, the Exorcism change did the opposite. Instead of stealing a GCD from a paladin, it actually gave them an extra one. A Retribution paladin could use Exorcism to cause damage while closing to melee and then be ready to go with their melee damage attacks. (Exorcism of course is not limited to Ret paladins either.) We changed the way paladins do damage for Lich King, so while it is unfortunate (and we accept full blame), it also isn’t too surprising that it is taking some effort to get their damage in the right place.
In the same patch where we remove the “not on players†limitation for Exorcism, we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty. While we have some ideas on how to accomplish that, if you have suggestions or your own ideas about how this could work, this would be a good time to share them. (As examples of abilities you don’t just use whenever their cooldown has finished, you might look at Conflagrate, Brain Freeze, Rip, Overpower or Arcane Blast.) We do request that you don’t fill the forums with posts of limited content or insight about how you don’t like to be nerfed. Nobody does.
It is always a judgment call about when a fix (a buff or a nerf) can’t wait. Some things we can’t change easily in hotfixes or small patches, and some things we consider too risky for technical reasons or for their potential effects on the game.
We made a change in the 3.1.1 patch to prevent Exorcism from being used on players. We didn’t announce this change ahead of time because we were trying to get the tooltip changed at the same time to reduce confusion. We still plan on getting the tooltip updated ASAP. Exorcism’s use in PvE has not changed at this time.
Going with a “not on players†solution is not ideal and we will be re-designing how the ability works in a future patch (the plan is sooner rather than later). We don’t like for PvE and PvP mechanics to work differently when we can avoid it. We also don’t like for a major damaging ability to be excluded from the PvP game. However, we thought this had become a balance issue serious enough to address at this time.
We shifted around paladin damage for 3.1 trying to increase sustained damage while reducing burst damage. Unfortunately, the Exorcism change did the opposite. Instead of stealing a GCD from a paladin, it actually gave them an extra one. A Retribution paladin could use Exorcism to cause damage while closing to melee and then be ready to go with their melee damage attacks. (Exorcism of course is not limited to Ret paladins either.) We changed the way paladins do damage for Lich King, so while it is unfortunate (and we accept full blame), it also isn’t too surprising that it is taking some effort to get their damage in the right place.
In the same patch where we remove the “not on players†limitation for Exorcism, we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty. While we have some ideas on how to accomplish that, if you have suggestions or your own ideas about how this could work, this would be a good time to share them. (As examples of abilities you don’t just use whenever their cooldown has finished, you might look at Conflagrate, Brain Freeze, Rip, Overpower or Arcane Blast.) We do request that you don’t fill the forums with posts of limited content or insight about how you don’t like to be nerfed. Nobody does.
It is always a judgment call about when a fix (a buff or a nerf) can’t wait. Some things we can’t change easily in hotfixes or small patches, and some things we consider too risky for technical reasons or for their potential effects on the game.
IMHO they should go back to exorcism being for undead and demons only. It makes no sense having affect all creatures.
If another PvE/PvP attack is required for paladin DPS and/or mechanics then introduce a new one. Realigning an existing 'interesting' attack is turning it into a farce.
If another PvE/PvP attack is required for paladin DPS and/or mechanics then introduce a new one. Realigning an existing 'interesting' attack is turning it into a farce.
I am also starting to get tired of the messing around paladins are getting.
It also scares the $h!t out of me that they say:
'we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty. While we have some ideas on how to accomplish that, if you have suggestions or your own ideas about how this could work, this would be a good time to share them.'[sic]
This is bad for 2 reasons:
1) Their track record for making changes to Paladins is not just poor, but it is so poor that it makes kittens and puppies die.
2) They state that they ARE going to change the way Paladins do damage, but in the same paragraph they say basically that they have no idea what they are actually going to do. This is a bit like going to a mechanic to have heart surgery.
I feel that the current WoW setup exceeds the competencies of the current development decision making team.
Although on the other side Ghostcrawler did say that he would nerf Paladins 'to the ground baby' and I suppose he is just doing what he said he would, and really there is not a lot we can moan about because he is only doing what he said he was going to do. Part of me respects that.
It also scares the $h!t out of me that they say:
'we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty. While we have some ideas on how to accomplish that, if you have suggestions or your own ideas about how this could work, this would be a good time to share them.'[sic]
This is bad for 2 reasons:
1) Their track record for making changes to Paladins is not just poor, but it is so poor that it makes kittens and puppies die.
2) They state that they ARE going to change the way Paladins do damage, but in the same paragraph they say basically that they have no idea what they are actually going to do. This is a bit like going to a mechanic to have heart surgery.
I feel that the current WoW setup exceeds the competencies of the current development decision making team.
Although on the other side Ghostcrawler did say that he would nerf Paladins 'to the ground baby' and I suppose he is just doing what he said he would, and really there is not a lot we can moan about because he is only doing what he said he was going to do. Part of me respects that.
SamwiseTheBrave wrote:
Although on the other side Ghostcrawler did say that he would nerf Paladins 'to the ground baby' and I suppose he is just doing what he said he would, and really there is not a lot we can moan about because he is only doing what he said he was going to do. Part of me respects that.
You do realize that when he said that, it wasn't a serious statement? There's much more to that quote then anyone ever bothers to tell ...
Quote:
Maulgak
SamwiseTheBrave wrote:
Although on the other side Ghostcrawler did say that he would nerf Paladins 'to the ground baby' and I suppose he is just doing what he said he would, and really there is not a lot we can moan about because he is only doing what he said he was going to do. Part of me respects that.
You do realize that when he said that, it wasn't a serious statement? There's much more to that quote then anyone ever bothers to tell ...
SamwiseTheBrave wrote:
Although on the other side Ghostcrawler did say that he would nerf Paladins 'to the ground baby' and I suppose he is just doing what he said he would, and really there is not a lot we can moan about because he is only doing what he said he was going to do. Part of me respects that.
You do realize that when he said that, it wasn't a serious statement? There's much more to that quote then anyone ever bothers to tell ...
I know it wasn't, he also said that he was sure that it would come back and haunt him and...er..well......Boo!
:D
Exorcism is one thing, but hand of reckoning too? It's an instant attack on a longish cooldown, does enough damage to kill totems, with the side benefit of keeping healers in combat. Why was this nerfed?
Ehcks wrote:
Quote:
It's a very useful spell in PvP with a lot of uses
Except it doesn't work in PvP at all.
Well, even though it does no damage and says immune, it apparently still puts your target in combat.
That would be the point of this thread, no? It worked in PVP until yesterday. Sure it didn't make the person switch targets, but that was never the point of it. Though you say it keeps the person in combat, can you confirm this? That was the main reason I used it in PVP, keep someone in combat from 30 yards if my judgement was on CD.
But it also broke totems too which was awesome.
Need more bursty please? I like bursty the best.
I remember Blizz did say that they were aware they were adding burst damage to paladins with this change. They didn't say they wanted this change to add sustained damage, they said they added it because they needed pala dps to be on par with other classes in non-undead content (because of Ulduar). Also this change was tested for a while in the PTR. I don't see why there's now a blue post saying that they were trying to reduce burst and increase sustained.
They could have just buffed SoV for sustained damage, since SoV is possibly the most stable damage source this class has. It also happens to interact with it's own judgement effect. If I was blizz, and I wanted to buff sustained damage from paladins, I'd buff SoV/JoV to reach the desired levels of sustained dps and give this tale a happy ending. Why am I not a blizz dev?
The Seal of Blood change... The real impact of the change was:
- Reduction of recoil damage (damage done through Judge has more recoil than done through Seal).
- Buff of multitarget DS damage (DS procs the SEAL on all targets, so...).
- Not depending on S.A. to regain mana.
Exor was not that bad in PvP. It had good damage but had a whole 15 sec of cooldown, the biggest impact it had was the psychological effect of having a Ret Pally casting ranged damage spells on people. It was totally disorienting to many who were not expecting it, specially for those who like to land a flying mount on a roof and attack from there. Maybe it's a little bit too powerful of a feature, but it's not the only class with this feature so there's a bit of ambiguity in taking it out for being too powerful. I'm not saying it should or should not, just that there's ambiguity in it.
I can see that Ret in PvE was just a 3 or 4 button rotation but honestly it's going to stay so if the majority of encounters continue to be just TPS+HPS+DPS flavored with placement and targeting.
I hope they don't go for GCD button mashing because that just makes the game more vulnerable to lag. Latency increases the GCD so then your DPS goes up and down based on latency.
Hand of Reck, I suppose I was not giving it it's intended use but it did so many things that it doesn't do anymore that it feels like some kind of a nerf.
Yes it taunts pets. Could change from minute to minute I guess.
Well there's probably major playerbase uproar right now, Pala being the second most overplayed class in PvP means a large portion of the playerbase is going to be wondering about this.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2009 12:18am by xorq
I remember Blizz did say that they were aware they were adding burst damage to paladins with this change. They didn't say they wanted this change to add sustained damage, they said they added it because they needed pala dps to be on par with other classes in non-undead content (because of Ulduar). Also this change was tested for a while in the PTR. I don't see why there's now a blue post saying that they were trying to reduce burst and increase sustained.
They could have just buffed SoV for sustained damage, since SoV is possibly the most stable damage source this class has. It also happens to interact with it's own judgement effect. If I was blizz, and I wanted to buff sustained damage from paladins, I'd buff SoV/JoV to reach the desired levels of sustained dps and give this tale a happy ending. Why am I not a blizz dev?
The Seal of Blood change... The real impact of the change was:
- Reduction of recoil damage (damage done through Judge has more recoil than done through Seal).
- Buff of multitarget DS damage (DS procs the SEAL on all targets, so...).
- Not depending on S.A. to regain mana.
Exor was not that bad in PvP. It had good damage but had a whole 15 sec of cooldown, the biggest impact it had was the psychological effect of having a Ret Pally casting ranged damage spells on people. It was totally disorienting to many who were not expecting it, specially for those who like to land a flying mount on a roof and attack from there. Maybe it's a little bit too powerful of a feature, but it's not the only class with this feature so there's a bit of ambiguity in taking it out for being too powerful. I'm not saying it should or should not, just that there's ambiguity in it.
I can see that Ret in PvE was just a 3 or 4 button rotation but honestly it's going to stay so if the majority of encounters continue to be just TPS+HPS+DPS flavored with placement and targeting.
I hope they don't go for GCD button mashing because that just makes the game more vulnerable to lag. Latency increases the GCD so then your DPS goes up and down based on latency.
Hand of Reck, I suppose I was not giving it it's intended use but it did so many things that it doesn't do anymore that it feels like some kind of a nerf.
Quote:
does it still taunt pets?
Yes it taunts pets. Could change from minute to minute I guess.
Well there's probably major playerbase uproar right now, Pala being the second most overplayed class in PvP means a large portion of the playerbase is going to be wondering about this.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2009 12:18am by xorq
mikelolol wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Quote:
It's a very useful spell in PvP with a lot of uses
Except it doesn't work in PvP at all.
Well, even though it does no damage and says immune, it apparently still puts your target in combat.
That would be the point of this thread, no? It worked in PVP until yesterday. Sure it didn't make the person switch targets, but that was never the point of it. Though you say it keeps the person in combat, can you confirm this? That was the main reason I used it in PVP, keep someone in combat from 30 yards if my judgement was on CD.
But it also broke totems too which was awesome.
The problem with Hand of Reckoning is that it was off the GCD, like all taunts, but it did damage from range. It procced Vindication, it killed totems, it counted as a spell so it killed grounding totems and spell reflect, and it ignored Divine Shield and Ice Block, all while doing nothing to your actual damage rotation. It was completely unfair.
I kind of went off on a tangent talking about exorcism.
I agree that HoR shouldn't affect players, hell the Horde attack me without being taunted.
I agree that HoR shouldn't affect players, hell the Horde attack me without being taunted.
Ehcks wrote:
mikelolol wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Quote:
It's a very useful spell in PvP with a lot of uses
Except it doesn't work in PvP at all.
Well, even though it does no damage and says immune, it apparently still puts your target in combat.
That would be the point of this thread, no? It worked in PVP until yesterday. Sure it didn't make the person switch targets, but that was never the point of it. Though you say it keeps the person in combat, can you confirm this? That was the main reason I used it in PVP, keep someone in combat from 30 yards if my judgement was on CD.
But it also broke totems too which was awesome.
The problem with Hand of Reckoning is that it was off the GCD, like all taunts, but it did damage from range. It procced Vindication, it killed totems, it counted as a spell so it killed grounding totems and spell reflect, and it ignored Divine Shield and Ice Block, all while doing nothing to your actual damage rotation. It was completely unfair.
It did like 132 damage. I really disagree.
There seems to be some probability that Hand of Reck isn't going to work on Players/Totems anymore. What would be the pally instant cast to use for killing totems now?
Autoattack is on a 3.5+ swing timer.
CS on a 6 sec cooldown.
Judge on a 7 or 8 sec cooldown.
DS on a 10 sec cooldown and I'm not sure it's possible to hit totems with it.
Suggestions?
Autoattack is on a 3.5+ swing timer.
CS on a 6 sec cooldown.
Judge on a 7 or 8 sec cooldown.
DS on a 10 sec cooldown and I'm not sure it's possible to hit totems with it.
Suggestions?
Be very selective about which totems you kill. Basically autoswing a grounding totem before a stun and burst attempt. The rest are team dependant. It depends who you're playing with. Mana tide use whatever is available ASAP, it's worth trading a 6s CS for a 5m mana tide instead of letting the shaman get extra ticks while you wait on an autoswing.
mikelolol wrote:
It did like 132 damage. I really disagree.
The damage it did was irrelevant. It was off the GCD and had far too many possible effects. No other class has an off-the-GCD 30-yard range ability that procs -20% to targets stats. Only pet classes can kill totems without having any effect on their own damage rotation, and even that involves wasting the melee swings of their pet.
It was a taunt. No other class has a ranged taunt that does damage. Warriors come close with Mocking Blow, which was also made unusable on players. If bears, warriors, or DKs could use their taunt to knock a caster out of drinking without even changing their own target or slowing their attacks at all, they'd have those changed too.
I would have to agree with this not working, but also Rightous Defense is also getting an Immune effect as well, Last night in 4 Horseman, I got 3 immunes before it worked, not sure of the reason, but also got this on several trash mobs as well. Maybe a bug im guessing.
hamletarcher wrote:
I would have to agree with this not working, but also Rightous Defense is also getting an Immune effect as well, Last night in 4 Horseman, I got 3 immunes before it worked, not sure of the reason, but also got this on several trash mobs as well. Maybe a bug im guessing.
Taunts on NPCs have diminishing returns. You were taunting too often.
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