Is there any actual purpose behind this glyph?
This came up in a guild discussion, I've been playing my paladin Prot for longest time, and a Ret paladin Dual-specced Prot and was looking for some starter tips and stuff, and was asking me. One of the questions was:
"Should I get [Glyph of Avenger's Shield]"?
My answer: NO!
Then we got into a discussion of why...
1). If you're solo grinding, you will want the multi-hit of the unglyphed Avenger's Shield, fighting 3+ mobs is a quite common occurrence in solo Prot.
2). If you're tanking an instance, Avenger's Shield gives you quite a large amount of threat when used to pull a group of mobs. Not to mention, it helps in boss fights that feature adds, it can crit for up to 3k+. That's a decent chunk of damage.
The only situation where the Glyph would actually help you, would be if you are fighting a single mob, a boss. But yet, a Paladin's main strength is their ability to tank trash pulls, AoE threat, right?
Why on Earth would you remove one of your many AoE tools, just to increase your DPS on 1 ability on a 30-second cooldown? That's what, assuming 3k hit, that's 100 DPS. Wow.
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I am in agreement with you. I never liked the Avenger's Shield Glyph at all for exactly the reason you mentioned.
Threat this x-pack has been a total non-issue, so teh higher single target threat on a boss fight really doesn't seem like it's a good trade for all the uses that this multi-target spell offers without the Glyph.
Threat this x-pack has been a total non-issue, so teh higher single target threat on a boss fight really doesn't seem like it's a good trade for all the uses that this multi-target spell offers without the Glyph.
There is no reason to get it.
You should have plenty of threat on the multi targets. That thing hits for over 1k. That equates to about 3k threat. Follow that up a second or so later with your multi-target hammer - (about 1k again) - you're spiking 6k total Threat within 3 seconds. (And my 1k estimates are low - but easier than trying to use the actual numbers...)
You should have plenty of threat on the multi targets. That thing hits for over 1k. That equates to about 3k threat. Follow that up a second or so later with your multi-target hammer - (about 1k again) - you're spiking 6k total Threat within 3 seconds. (And my 1k estimates are low - but easier than trying to use the actual numbers...)
Scholar
32 posts
Agreed. You should not get the glyph. Multi-target threat is necessary, especially when you have over eager dps.
Also, remember with 3.1, if you spec'd SotT, you get a 100% silence for 3 seconds. This is especially nice to pull a group of casters to you initially. After that, if BE, Arcane Torrent for an additional 2 seconds of silence. (more than enough time to kill, or at the very least, gain a very large threat lead)
Also, remember with 3.1, if you spec'd SotT, you get a 100% silence for 3 seconds. This is especially nice to pull a group of casters to you initially. After that, if BE, Arcane Torrent for an additional 2 seconds of silence. (more than enough time to kill, or at the very least, gain a very large threat lead)
It wasn't a viable option pre-3.1 because Avenger's Shield was a pulling tool that got tossed in as an afterthought for threat if you're sitting high on mana with a spare cooldown in your rotation.
With dual spec, you could potentially have a pally specced OT/add tank and MT/single boss tank, in which case the Avenger's Shield glyph would be a reasonable substitute for the HotR Glyph. Either way, you're talking a minor tweak, not a game breaking boost. I can't say that I would ever use it, but given the number of pallies busting at the seems to get the HotR glyph, that's as much of a waste on a single boss as the AS glyph is on multi-mob pulls.
With dual spec, you could potentially have a pally specced OT/add tank and MT/single boss tank, in which case the Avenger's Shield glyph would be a reasonable substitute for the HotR Glyph. Either way, you're talking a minor tweak, not a game breaking boost. I can't say that I would ever use it, but given the number of pallies busting at the seems to get the HotR glyph, that's as much of a waste on a single boss as the AS glyph is on multi-mob pulls.
You can mix the Avenger's Shield glyph in with other PvP glyphs and abilities for a PvP Prot setup.
Permanent undispellable Divine Plea should prevent from OOMing, and then you run around silencing casters with your high damage AS, and praying a melee class decides to go after you.
Not sure how well it'd go..
It's also a lot of boss threat, on top of our already massive boss threat.
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 7:10pm by Ehcks
Permanent undispellable Divine Plea should prevent from OOMing, and then you run around silencing casters with your high damage AS, and praying a melee class decides to go after you.
Not sure how well it'd go..
It's also a lot of boss threat, on top of our already massive boss threat.
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 7:10pm by Ehcks
I don't like the glyph at all, why would you want to reduce one of the shields main benifits, large aggro on multiple mobs? As it stands tankadins have probably the best threat of all tanks (from what I've seen raiding Uldar25 with all 3 other tank classes).
I'm not keen at all on the new silence effect of Avengers shield, I would rather that this was the glyph tbh so we got a choice of daze or silence, old style Avengers shield and the glyph gives it the silence effect. Wasn't that point of glyphs, to give classes more flavour rather than the min\maxing that glyphs seem to have become?
Edited, Apr 18th 2009 9:03pm by Chamual
I'm not keen at all on the new silence effect of Avengers shield, I would rather that this was the glyph tbh so we got a choice of daze or silence, old style Avengers shield and the glyph gives it the silence effect. Wasn't that point of glyphs, to give classes more flavour rather than the min\maxing that glyphs seem to have become?
Edited, Apr 18th 2009 9:03pm by Chamual
Chamual wrote:
I don't like the glyph at all, why would you want to reduce one of the shields main benifits, large aggro on multiple mobs? As it stands tankadins have probably the best threat of all tanks (from what I've seen raiding Uldar25 with all 3 other tank classes).
That's why the glyph was generally frowned upon...we'd sacrifice the multi-target threat for increased single target threat/dps. For 5-mans, that was obviously a no-go and even in raids it was considered too big of a tradeoff. If, however, you have a pally who has no interest in a ret or holy offspec, they could use the dual-spec option to create one build for trash and bosses where they know they'll have to deal with multiple targets and another build for bosses (and even single target trash.
As tanks, we tend to look at things from a threat perspective (and rightly so). Since 3.0, however, we also bring a reasonable amount of dps to the table (my pally was running anywhere from 1800-2500dps in Naxx). Also, pallies in particular had a very, very easy time of things in terms of threat with Naxx, but we don't know yet how the tier 8 itemization is going to leave us (and dps classes) going into Icecrown. Skilled BIS dps were already pushing 6k+ dps in raids pre-3.1 which would put any tank to the test.
It's pretty easy to see how the AS glyph would offer advantages in a single target scenario (ie. boss), but it's not such an enormous boost that it would become "mandatory", and certainly not something most prot pallies would consider using as a main glyph of choice unless they were working two prot builds.
I ran 1/2 of 10m nax this wkend before I had to leave the group...
I was not so impressed by the 'silence' effect. I noticed a lot of mobs saying "Immune" and I assume it was the silence...
I was not so impressed by the 'silence' effect. I noticed a lot of mobs saying "Immune" and I assume it was the silence...
Quote:
You can mix the Avenger's Shield glyph in with other PvP glyphs and abilities for a PvP Prot setup.
Permanent undispellable Divine Plea should prevent from OOMing, and then you run around silencing casters with your high damage AS, and praying a melee class decides to go after you.
Not sure how well it'd go..
It's also a lot of boss threat, on top of our already massive boss threat.
Permanent undispellable Divine Plea should prevent from OOMing, and then you run around silencing casters with your high damage AS, and praying a melee class decides to go after you.
Not sure how well it'd go..
It's also a lot of boss threat, on top of our already massive boss threat.
There was actually a 3v3 on my battlegroup pre-3.1 that ran 3 Prot Paladins. They would attempt to burst the healer down using this glyph in conjunction with judgements, Hammers of Justice and shield slams. I heard they were around 1800-2k or so.
Quote:
I ran 1/2 of 10m nax this wkend before I had to leave the group...
I was not so impressed by the 'silence' effect. I noticed a lot of mobs saying "Immune" and I assume it was the silence...
I was not so impressed by the 'silence' effect. I noticed a lot of mobs saying "Immune" and I assume it was the silence...
It also may have been from the slowing (dazing?) effect.
Edited, Apr 28th 2009 12:16pm by Zeromatter
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