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Druids and Defense cap?Follow
I'm just curious if druids still need/can achieve defense cap for level 80 raids? I dont see any tanking leather. In fact other then the druid forums here. I havent even heard of druids tanking raids or heroics in wrath. Might just be my server, but can anyone explain how a druid would tank endgame?
If it's like anything like my server, tanks (and healers) are severely overshadowed in numbers by dps.
As for defense, with 3/3 in Survival Instincts, Bears (but not Cat) will be crit immune, thus not needing more defense. However, extra defense from jewelry, cloaks, etc doesn't hurt either.
As for defense, with 3/3 in Survival Instincts, Bears (but not Cat) will be crit immune, thus not needing more defense. However, extra defense from jewelry, cloaks, etc doesn't hurt either.
Azaza wrote:
As for defense, with 3/3 in Survival Instincts, Bears (but not Cat) will be crit immune
Incorrect.
Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 10:25am by Norellicus
Indeed it is 3/3 in Survival of the Fittest as Norellicus mentioned that makes us insta-defense capped in addition those pesky crushing blows being pushed off to +4, while raid bosses are staying at +3.
The mind set going into Wrath was that bear druids would share itemization with rouges; in Chest, Legs, Hands, Feet, etc.. but share our Rings, Neck, Trinkets, etc.. with plate tanks.
Quote:
I dont see any tanking leather.
The mind set going into Wrath was that bear druids would share itemization with rouges; in Chest, Legs, Hands, Feet, etc.. but share our Rings, Neck, Trinkets, etc.. with plate tanks.
Ok, Thanks for the info.
GryphonStalker, Guardian of the Glade wrote:
Indeed it is 3/3 in Survival of the Fittest as Norellicus mentioned that makes us insta-defense capped in addition those pesky crushing blows being pushed off to +4, while raid bosses are staying at +3.
The mind set going into Wrath was that bear druids would share itemization with rouges; in Chest, Legs, Hands, Feet, etc.. but share our Rings, Neck, Trinkets, etc.. with plate tanks.
Quote:
I dont see any tanking leather.
The mind set going into Wrath was that bear druids would share itemization with rouges; in Chest, Legs, Hands, Feet, etc.. but share our Rings, Neck, Trinkets, etc.. with plate tanks.
Nomenclature aside, I was moreover addressing the assessment that SotF only works in Bear. If you have 3/3, you will not be crit by any mob up to 3 levels over you, regardless of form.
Quote:
I haven't even heard of druids tanking raids or heroics in wrath
Cats and lasrchknz got huge DPS buffs, that pulled from the ranks of bears. Plus I bet some bears rolled DKs.
Bear druid == rare druid.
Quote:
The mind set going into Wrath was that bear druids would share itemization with rouges; in Chest, Legs, Hands, Feet, etc.. but share our Rings, Neck, Trinkets, etc.. with plate tanks.
I think with upcoming SD changes they want us to use DPS rings and necks. Trinkets to some extent as well. I'll keep EoG and the dodge one for now but will have no problem replacing them occasionally with DPS stuff come 3.1
Quote:
If you have 3/3, you will not be crit by any mob up to 3 levels over you, regardless of form.
To be overly technical I will say that your Defense skill has to be close to the 400 cap. Only matters if you power level via recruit a friend as otherwise the skill caps soon after dinging 80.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Nomenclature aside, I was moreover addressing the assessment that SotF only works in Bear. If you have 3/3, you will not be crit by any mob up to 3 levels over you, regardless of form.
I've been critted in cat form from nonboss mobs, so that's why i said what i did.... leading me to believe the entire talent applied to Bear form only.
Time to test.
Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 3:51pm by Azaza
Azaza wrote:
Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Nomenclature aside, I was moreover addressing the assessment that SotF only works in Bear. If you have 3/3, you will not be crit by any mob up to 3 levels over you, regardless of form.
I've been critted in cat form from nonboss mobs, so that's why i said what i did.... leading me to believe the entire talent applied to Bear form only.
Time to test.
Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 3:51pm by Azaza
Some enemies have self-buffs that increase their chance to crit. I remember a bunch of humanoids (snobolds?) with a buff that increases their crit rate by like 25% or something.
Don't forget to take into account that the notion of "crit immunity" doesn't truly mean what it seems to mean. Any warrior/paladin/DK that is defense capped and any druid with 3/3 Survival of the Fittest can still be hit with critical strikes from mobs, it's just that the probability of such plummets almost to sheer nonexistence once that defense cap or talent maximization is reached. Kind of like being hit capped and still outright missing, it has to happen, there is no 100% guarantee of anything in WoW. The RNG will not allow it.
RNG has nothing to do with the distribution of the combat table. 540 Defense or 3/3 SotF means you will never be critically hit by a monster up to 3 levels higher than you unless it has some manner of adjusted statistics (usually via a debuff), period.
Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 11:54pm by Norellicus
Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 11:54pm by Norellicus
I don't have specific links to support it but as far as I have always known it works as stated in my previous post. You might see only one critical strike out of 1000 hits but it can happen.
Tavarde wrote:
I don't have specific links to support it but as far as I have always known it works as stated in my previous post. You might see only one critical strike out of 1000 hits but it can happen.
I'm pretty sure that rumor's been debunked.
EDIT: sorry, I mean that rumor's been taken to the level of "you can't prove something can't happen just because it doesn't, but we've found no confirmation of this in extensive tests."
Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 10:49pm by selebrin
When most people think of crit immune, they think of being at the defense level (not cap, there is no such thing reachable) that allows for you to be immune to crits from mobs 3 levels above you, which raid bosses happen to be.
If a mob is 4 levels above you, they can still crit you because it would take much more defense to push their chance off the table. Just like you only need 535 for heroics (2 levels) and 540 for raids (3 levels), you'd need more defense to push 4 and 5 levels higher off the chart.
I believe it's exactly the same for Hit rating. If you're hit capped, you don't miss. It's not an RNG thing, you just won't miss unless that mob has some sort of evasion technique that allows it to boost it's chance to not be hit with spells/attacks and make it not come up as a dodge/absorb/reflect/parry/immune in your combat log.
Anyway, numbers don't lie and they can't push in a "chance" for something to happen if they chance isn't already present.
That's my take on it anyway. :P
If a mob is 4 levels above you, they can still crit you because it would take much more defense to push their chance off the table. Just like you only need 535 for heroics (2 levels) and 540 for raids (3 levels), you'd need more defense to push 4 and 5 levels higher off the chart.
I believe it's exactly the same for Hit rating. If you're hit capped, you don't miss. It's not an RNG thing, you just won't miss unless that mob has some sort of evasion technique that allows it to boost it's chance to not be hit with spells/attacks and make it not come up as a dodge/absorb/reflect/parry/immune in your combat log.
Anyway, numbers don't lie and they can't push in a "chance" for something to happen if they chance isn't already present.
That's my take on it anyway. :P
If you have SotF and have leveled your Def skill (as mentioned above) then the only way you will be crit is either with an unusual buff or debuff that increases crit chance or if you sit down. While it is impossible to prove that you can't still be crit, we aren't talking about 1 in 1000 here, but 1 in probably millions when you talking about the combined experience of many, many tanks who haven't been crit while being at or over the cap.
LockeColeMA wrote:
Some enemies have self-buffs that increase their chance to crit. I remember a bunch of humanoids (snobolds?) with a buff that increases their crit rate by like 25% or something.
Valkyrion Aspirant with the selfbuff Metanoia was both what you must've been referring to and the specific mobs I could recall critting me in cat form.
Carry on. :D
Edited, Mar 27th 2009 12:11am by Azaza
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