Mage
* Mage T8 2P Bonus -- Your Arcane Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and Fireball spells have a chance to grant you 350 spell power for 15 sec.
* Mage T8 4P Bonus -- You have a chance for the effect of your Missile Barrage, Hot Streak, or Brain Freeze talent not to be consumed when you cast the spells which benefit.
Mage
* Molten Armor now causes 170 Fire damage when hit for all ranks (Up from 75/130/170) and also increases your critical strike rating by 25% of your spirit.
* Improved Scorch now increases spell critical strike chance against the target by 1%.
Frost
* Winter's Chill now increases the chance spells will critically hit the target by 1%. (Down from 2%)
* Glyph of Molten Armor -- Your Molten Armor grants an additional 15% of your spirit as critical strike rating. (Old - Your Molten Armor spell grants an additional 2% critical strike chance.)
* Glyph of Mirror Image -- Your Mirror Image spell now creates a 4th copy. (Old - Your Mirror Images gain the Winter's Chill talent, granting their Frostbolt spell a 100% chance to apply the Winter's Chill effect, which increases the chance spells will critically hit the target by 2% for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.)
Here is basically what I get out of this:
2pc, could be good depending on proc rate and ICD (I assume 45seconds).
4pc, a proc based on a proc... not so good. makes mages even more RNG dependent that we already were. Along with how arcane, assuming the rotation stays the same should always ramp up ABx3 before using Mbarr again it means we could have procced another one (40% chance) by the time we ramp-up again.
FINALLY our spirit changes -- still doesn't make spirit a wanted/desirable stat. Yes, it isn't as bad as it was, but overall most mages (except for arcane) will be LOSING crit with this change. It will take around 575 spirit to be back to the 5% that we were all at before. I am fairly close to that with my arcane spec, but most fire mages sit around in their mid 400s raid buffed. While they are throwing more spirit at us in Ulduar it still doesn't make the items well itemized.
Oh, and they also pretty much failed at making fire pvp-viable and also did a terrible job at fixing our mana regen mechanics.
Good work!
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 9:11am by Anobix
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/facepalm mage changes in 3.1 and set bonuses...Follow
So overall, we will be losing 7% crit with changes to improved scorch and molten armor glyph....that we have to make up with spirit...a stat we've basically not been stacking.
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 10:47am by NCspaz
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 10:48am by NCspaz
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 10:47am by NCspaz
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 10:48am by NCspaz
Plus our T8.5 looks terrible without the long robes we have been used to for so long. I understand we're supposed to be some kind of "battle mage" but this is ridiculous. Paladins, Warlocks, Priests, and even shamans have a robe/skirt/kilt and we don't.
Plus, is the 10 man only 4 pieces?
Plus, is the 10 man only 4 pieces?
Princess Kyrin wrote:
Plus our T8.5 looks terrible without the long robes we have been used to for so long. I understand we're supposed to be some kind of "battle mage" but this is ridiculous. Paladins, Warlocks, Priests, and even shamans have a robe/skirt/kilt and we don't.
Plus, is the 10 man only 4 pieces?
Plus, is the 10 man only 4 pieces?
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/march/t8_10_mage2.jpg
I count 5
Good, they fixed that.
So, how many mages will be wearing the full T8 set happily or just enough for the set bonus? I am, for one, going to miss my 2pc T7.
I'm going to wait to see how the mana situation is. I may do 2 and 2.
I may figure a way to have 2 T7 and 2 T8. Although the T7 4 piece is good, it most likely wont be missed too much over higher level gear.
As for the T8, again the 2 Piece set is nice (not as nice as T7 since lack of control is always an issue when controlling CDs) but the 4 Piece is a joke for Frost and Fire.
How I see it ::
Hot Streak and Brain Freeze really only benefit in putting their Debuffs on the Target over the regular rotation (Pyro doesn't really hit any harder than FFB/Fireball and Deep Frost has nearly no benefits to Brainfreeze Fireballs). As for MBAM, this definitely WILL result in a DPS boost but at the cost of a pretty big hit to DPM. It wont be a surprise (like Brain Freeze/Hot Streak) because you'll still have the ~2 seconds to see if you retained the Missile Barrage Proc after firing AM - and with a notifier like Power Auras or MageFever it wont be an issue.
The real problem I see is that, unless the effective rate on this 4 Piece bonus is quite substantial and has no internal cooldown, statistically a huge number of these events will go to waste as they may Proc late in the Missile Barrage buff as the Mage continues building ABlasts - allowing MB to stayup for its remainder even if that remainder is less than the time required to fire off a new one.
This set may require a game play change for Arcane that immediately uses MBAMs to "fish" for these procs. We'll really have to wait and see this in action. Getting some real numbers for theorycrafting will help too.
Molten Armor is again being shoved in our faces. Now with changes to the trees allowing huge Gains in Mana without the need to use Mage Armor (and using Mage armor now putting players over a necessary %) - it looks as though Molten Armor + Glyph of Molten + passive Mana regeneration talents will cover the whole mana gains and throttle control while allowing increased Crit across the board for mages. Right now in current gear, well above Hit Cap, this will net in over 250 Crit Rating or around 5.4 Crit%.
In essence, it doesn't make an "incentive" for spirit, it makes Spirit a requirement for any serious Mage.
Is that good or bad? Guess thats up to who you're talking to.
As for the T8, again the 2 Piece set is nice (not as nice as T7 since lack of control is always an issue when controlling CDs) but the 4 Piece is a joke for Frost and Fire.
How I see it ::
Hot Streak and Brain Freeze really only benefit in putting their Debuffs on the Target over the regular rotation (Pyro doesn't really hit any harder than FFB/Fireball and Deep Frost has nearly no benefits to Brainfreeze Fireballs). As for MBAM, this definitely WILL result in a DPS boost but at the cost of a pretty big hit to DPM. It wont be a surprise (like Brain Freeze/Hot Streak) because you'll still have the ~2 seconds to see if you retained the Missile Barrage Proc after firing AM - and with a notifier like Power Auras or MageFever it wont be an issue.
The real problem I see is that, unless the effective rate on this 4 Piece bonus is quite substantial and has no internal cooldown, statistically a huge number of these events will go to waste as they may Proc late in the Missile Barrage buff as the Mage continues building ABlasts - allowing MB to stayup for its remainder even if that remainder is less than the time required to fire off a new one.
This set may require a game play change for Arcane that immediately uses MBAMs to "fish" for these procs. We'll really have to wait and see this in action. Getting some real numbers for theorycrafting will help too.
Molten Armor is again being shoved in our faces. Now with changes to the trees allowing huge Gains in Mana without the need to use Mage Armor (and using Mage armor now putting players over a necessary %) - it looks as though Molten Armor + Glyph of Molten + passive Mana regeneration talents will cover the whole mana gains and throttle control while allowing increased Crit across the board for mages. Right now in current gear, well above Hit Cap, this will net in over 250 Crit Rating or around 5.4 Crit%.
In essence, it doesn't make an "incentive" for spirit, it makes Spirit a requirement for any serious Mage.
Is that good or bad? Guess thats up to who you're talking to.
The mage T8 looks like plate while Paladins get a dress.
So, yeah, you guys go in and tank, I'll stand back here and wiggle my fingers.
So, yeah, you guys go in and tank, I'll stand back here and wiggle my fingers.
Ehcks wrote:
The mage T8 looks like plate while Paladins get a dress.
That's what I was thinking... wtf? I'm a mage, I want to wear a dress damn it.
Scholar
39 posts
I kind of like the tunic idea. I'm sick of wearing a dress. They hide the design of the pants, which, although sometimes ugly, can be a waste of design work. An option for a robe or tunic would be best.
The set bonuses are less than thrilling. I love the ones on the t7. I get a lot of use out of the mana gem. without that bonus, we're left with 40% less mana from the gem for 100 spellpower. I'll take the mana. Means I can keep casting that much longer and easily make up for the 100 spellpower, unless it procs a lot.
Maybe the higher spirit will make up for it though.
The set bonuses are less than thrilling. I love the ones on the t7. I get a lot of use out of the mana gem. without that bonus, we're left with 40% less mana from the gem for 100 spellpower. I'll take the mana. Means I can keep casting that much longer and easily make up for the 100 spellpower, unless it procs a lot.
Maybe the higher spirit will make up for it though.
I will use my Valorous Frostfire Robes probably a good ways into Ulduar.
And on the subject of spirit, I have been in guilds that wouldn't give mages any gear with spirit on it unless they were going arcane. Not only that, but it was given to any other class that had spirit as a useful stat, like priests (which use it the most, yes) and locks due to the Fel Armor buff. So, now, the mages that didn't get a few pieces of spirit in there gear, or passed it over as a completely useless stat will probably be losing out on the dps and most likely raid leaders will notice this. I really don't think that Molten Armor should have been tied to spirit. It doesn't make sense. Mage Armor it makes sense, but not for Molten Armor.
And on the subject of spirit, I have been in guilds that wouldn't give mages any gear with spirit on it unless they were going arcane. Not only that, but it was given to any other class that had spirit as a useful stat, like priests (which use it the most, yes) and locks due to the Fel Armor buff. So, now, the mages that didn't get a few pieces of spirit in there gear, or passed it over as a completely useless stat will probably be losing out on the dps and most likely raid leaders will notice this. I really don't think that Molten Armor should have been tied to spirit. It doesn't make sense. Mage Armor it makes sense, but not for Molten Armor.
Quote:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/march/t8_10_mage2.jpg
even though I no longer play on a RP server I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that around IF.
infact i would lie and say I still wore T7
Edited, Mar 19th 2009 8:32pm by redbarronthesecond
If the T8 bonus remains the same when the patch is released, I would definitely go with 2pieces of t7 and 2 pieces of t8.
And I'll kill/bribe whoever it takes to get a t7.5 robe (still have the t7 one sadly) and rotate the other slots so they fit best.
Besides the fashion factor, the t7 robes have more spirit than that crappy looking t8 tunic.
And I'll kill/bribe whoever it takes to get a t7.5 robe (still have the t7 one sadly) and rotate the other slots so they fit best.
Besides the fashion factor, the t7 robes have more spirit than that crappy looking t8 tunic.
That's a good point. It's going to be rough now that we have to think about spirit. :(
Quick back-of-envelope calculation shows my FFB mage losing 7.2% crit on patch day - 5% from Imp. Scorch, and only getting 2.8% from glyphed Molten Armor, down from 5%.
That hurts. I'm having a hard time understanding why they felt FFB needed such a nerf. I thought we were doing fine in 3rd place (after Fire/TtW and Arcane). Apparently not.
That hurts. I'm having a hard time understanding why they felt FFB needed such a nerf. I thought we were doing fine in 3rd place (after Fire/TtW and Arcane). Apparently not.
You are talking about your raid-buffed spirit? divine spirit + kings + mark of the wild?
Yukeake wrote:
Quick back-of-envelope calculation shows my FFB mage losing 7.2% crit on patch day - 5% from Imp. Scorch, and only getting 2.8% from glyphed Molten Armor, down from 5%.
That hurts. I'm having a hard time understanding why they felt FFB needed such a nerf. I thought we were doing fine in 3rd place (after Fire/TtW and Arcane). Apparently not.
That hurts. I'm having a hard time understanding why they felt FFB needed such a nerf. I thought we were doing fine in 3rd place (after Fire/TtW and Arcane). Apparently not.
I can explain it fine.
The 5% scorch/frostbolt nerf was because the damage would scale too well. Too much crit too early. Also, Warlocks spamming Shadowbolt now bring the same buff. They had to nerf the crit somewhere because values would just keep going up, and this was what they decided on. Sucky, yes, but it's NOT intended as a major nerf to just FFB; it's a nerf to ALL spell casters.
The Molten Armor changes were to make spirit more useful. Right now there' hardly any reason for spirit on gear. Now you need to check out spirit as well, and stacking it will cause a boost to both regen (through buffed regen talents) and crit (through new Mage Armor). It gives you a place to go. Some folks will gain crit from the patch because of their spirit; and now spirit on mage items will not cause groaning of "wasted itemization" but will instead further boost your crit above waht it would have been from MA if it stayed as it currently is.
In short: it was nerfed now instead of later, and it's for everyone, not just FFB (my druid is losing a few thousand health and armor, so I know the pain as well).
The problem with spirit is that even though it gives us something now, it is still a waste of itemization compared to int or to any other green stat that would be on the gear instead of it.
Anobix wrote:
The problem with spirit is that even though it gives us something now, it is still a waste of itemization compared to int or to any other green stat that would be on the gear instead of it.
Ya something you gotta realize, though, Anobix is that I have been prioritizing Spirit directly under Crit and Haste (on par with Intellect) ever since I went into Arcane. When you REALLY break down the majority of good caster items, they ALL have balances of certain attributes::
-Intellect
-Stamina
-Spell Power
-Crit OR Haste (rarely both, if it has both it usually sacrafices Int/Sta)
-Spirit OR MP5 OR Hit (again rarely a mix)
This means for the majority of items available to Heroics/Raid level gears, you have only to balance (choose) in the last 2 "categories" of
- Crit versus Haste
- Spirit versus MP5 versus Hit
If you really think it's that obnoxious hit gather Spirit while maintaining Hit, you can see how I wracked up a decent amount of Spirit while keeping myself Raid Hit-Capped.
Boneskul
I'm not trying to show off my gear - Lord knows most of you on here have better. What I'm showing is how this next patch can actually be more of a boost than a nerf (Scorch debuff excluded, of course.) Considering I'm currently running with Mage armor, and I likely wont be needing to soon, we'll just have to see how well Molten now works for me and what potential new Specs will become staples for 3.1~
I'm at 307 Spirit right now.
As a FFB mage its harder to find stuff with both spirit and crit.
For an arcane mage its easier to get spirit as I have noticed there are quite a number of items with spirit and haste, but as an arcane mage you'll be getting spirit for the needed mana regen to sustain the arcane rotations, now you'll be getting the bonus of more crit. QQ
/bites arcane mages
For an arcane mage its easier to get spirit as I have noticed there are quite a number of items with spirit and haste, but as an arcane mage you'll be getting spirit for the needed mana regen to sustain the arcane rotations, now you'll be getting the bonus of more crit. QQ
/bites arcane mages
Ah Amaiya good point - you are definatly right about that. There are some slots that seem not to have ANY options for both Spirit and Crit available - yet anyways.
Hopefully Ulduar will change that.
Also for those of you complaining about the T8, I personally think the 25 man Conqueror's Kirin'dor Garb looks much chiller - at least on a Male - than the T7 Did. My gripe with the new set is not the graphic but the Bonuses - we'll have to see =)
Hopefully Ulduar will change that.
Also for those of you complaining about the T8, I personally think the 25 man Conqueror's Kirin'dor Garb looks much chiller - at least on a Male - than the T7 Did. My gripe with the new set is not the graphic but the Bonuses - we'll have to see =)
Great. Maga-facepalm. Now to find spirit gear. /shudder
Edit: Anyone heard the reasoning behind Scorch going from 2% to %1 crit? First the crush Arcane (which admittedly needed to be slapped down), now they're taking away crit from Fire and Frost builds? If anything Fire needs a boost.
Edited, Mar 21st 2009 8:10am by Caia
Edit: Anyone heard the reasoning behind Scorch going from 2% to %1 crit? First the crush Arcane (which admittedly needed to be slapped down), now they're taking away crit from Fire and Frost builds? If anything Fire needs a boost.
Edited, Mar 21st 2009 8:10am by Caia
Caia wrote:
Great. Maga-facepalm. Now to find spirit gear. /shudder
Edit: Anyone heard the reasoning behind Scorch going from 2% to %1 crit? First the crush Arcane (which admittedly needed to be slapped down), now they're taking away crit from Fire and Frost builds? If anything Fire needs a boost.
Edited, Mar 21st 2009 8:10am by Caia
Edit: Anyone heard the reasoning behind Scorch going from 2% to %1 crit? First the crush Arcane (which admittedly needed to be slapped down), now they're taking away crit from Fire and Frost builds? If anything Fire needs a boost.
Edited, Mar 21st 2009 8:10am by Caia
It is because everyone had too much crit for T7. And the easiest way to fix that, instead of nerfing all crit on gear, is to take away buffs/debuffs that do it.
I didn't think there was such a thing as too much crit. 
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