I must be doing something wrong with this toon. I keep hearing people talk about 4.5K - 5K DPS as normal on these boards. I frequently lurk here and at other sites to improve my gameplay. I have tried a bunch of different rotations and trinkets, but seem to be stuck in a poor DPS rut. I either have to call B.S. or my EPeen is smaller than swimming on a winter's day. The highest overall DPS for a heroic run, that I have seen is 3400. I also achieved my highest DPS to date with this group 2700. The only other person I have seen break 3000 was a mage in H VoA. I normally range from 2000 to 2500 for an overall heroic run. These figure are usually enough to put me at greater than 40% total damage done in the run.
I need honest help to improve my numbers. I'm an unholy 17-54 specc'd DK with the following glyphs: Ghoul, Plague strike, & Scourge strike.
My armory is "Sunnymuffins" on the Blade's Edge server. I sorry I couldn't link my toon( my computer tech errr son wasn't here) The only real improvement gearwise upcoming will be the Darkmoon Faire Greatness trinket. My work/life schedule precludes me from raiding Naxx unless I find a Sat. PUG.
My normal rotations are as follows:
Multi- IT/PS/Pestilence/blood boil/ unholy Blight/ SS/DS
Single- IT/PS/BS/BS/SS/Unholy Blight,death coil runic dump/ SS when up
Please let me know what I can do to improve my play. I know most people are in full Naxx gear, but is it really twice as good number wise? or is it my rotations? I really am stuck on this, and don't know what I need to do to improve my DPS
Thanks,
Sunnymuffins
GhoulFollow
I haven't started raiding yet, so there is little advice I can give you, but here are a few things that come to mind. I don't know whether or not I am right, it is just stuff you may want to investigate.
1. Some of the highest DpS numbers come from AoE DpS, not boss DpS. DKs can get ridiculously high numbers here, through pest/diseases/UB. Essentially getting a few hundred DpS on every mob in the area, plus that which they are dealing to their main target.\
2. Unholy isn't the highest DpS spec right now, and SS < Oblit as far as damage goes, even with the third disease, so Frost/Blood tend to be higher.
3. Your gear isn't great. (Note: this does NOT mean bad). I wouldn't expect THAT high of numbers from your current setup. And some of your gems seem odd. For example, in your belt, you take a +8 Strength, +12 Sta gem instead of a second +16 str gem. Your health should be MORE than enough with normal gear than to need to sacrifice other stats for Sta. A second Scourgeborn piece will increase your DpS from SS about 5%, without even considering any possible stat upgrades it gives.
4. Your overall stat numbers seem off to me (but it may JUST be me). For one thing, I think you have a lot more +hit than you want. I may be COMPLETELY wrong here, but I think 8 or 9% is the hit cap for 2-handers. So you may be sacrificing a lot of +crit or +ap for useless stats. Download a EJ spreadsheet to check your stats.
5. Your spec has some points that I would consider weird. For one, why are you only taking 3/5 points in Impurity, but put 2 in Dirge? You shouldn't be needing so much RP that a 10% reduction in bonus damage from AP is worth it. Garg is only usable every 3 minutes, UB is only 40 RP every 20 seconds (easily achieved). I don't generally use Death Coil if I'm not blood. You also need to remember that you have talents that will only be a significant DpS boost in groups, like wandering plague. 20% chance for a disease to cause double damage is nice. But it is a much higher DpS boost when you have 8 targets, all getting hit by that additional damage and all proccing more.
6. Why are you using an RP attack just before you use your Garg? That makes no sense to me. You want it to last the full 30 seconds, and it would be preferable to have AP after for UB.
7. If you are running with a Priest/Feral Druid, have them throw DP/IW on your target before using pest. It will count as your DpS on all targets but the main one. So, people that run with specific guild setups may see a lot more DpS from this.
8. Do you pop your trinkets just before using Garg?
9. Remember, group make-ups can make a LOT of difference. Running with a Paladin can get you BoM or BoK. Running with a Hunter can get you 10% more AP. Running with a Shaman makes things go dead.
Running with all of them makes things fun. >:D
****You need a LOT more expertise. It is one of the nicest DpS (and tanking) stats, especially because DKs need to hit to keep up our rotations.
Remember, I am NOT an expert. Take this with a grain of salt. One thing you REALLY need to do, though, is download an Elitist Jerks spreadsheet to check your stats.
[EDIT]
And remember to use Blood Fury. Popping it will give you an extra 362 AP for use with Garg. It is on a 2 minute CD, though, and Garg is on a 3 minute CD. You'll need to evaluate the situation to decide whether to use it when it comes up or to wait an extra minute. For example, if the boss will die in before the Garg CD is up, use it. If it will die in <30 seconds after the Garg CD is up, use it. Is there an enrage timer you are trying to beat? Otherwise, use it.
Also, because you get +5 Expertise with axes, if you can find a nice 2-hander, you may get more DpS out of it.
I also need to know whether or not you have Omen and work on riding your threat. If you don't, get it. It'll let you use Rune Strike without worrying about pulling threat, because you can see whether or not it'll take you too far over the tank's threat.
Again, go to EJ. Download a SS. Read any and all DpS threads (including the normal FaQ, it is pretty in depth).
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 2:35pm by idiggory
1. Some of the highest DpS numbers come from AoE DpS, not boss DpS. DKs can get ridiculously high numbers here, through pest/diseases/UB. Essentially getting a few hundred DpS on every mob in the area, plus that which they are dealing to their main target.\
2. Unholy isn't the highest DpS spec right now, and SS < Oblit as far as damage goes, even with the third disease, so Frost/Blood tend to be higher.
3. Your gear isn't great. (Note: this does NOT mean bad). I wouldn't expect THAT high of numbers from your current setup. And some of your gems seem odd. For example, in your belt, you take a +8 Strength, +12 Sta gem instead of a second +16 str gem. Your health should be MORE than enough with normal gear than to need to sacrifice other stats for Sta. A second Scourgeborn piece will increase your DpS from SS about 5%, without even considering any possible stat upgrades it gives.
4. Your overall stat numbers seem off to me (but it may JUST be me). For one thing, I think you have a lot more +hit than you want. I may be COMPLETELY wrong here, but I think 8 or 9% is the hit cap for 2-handers. So you may be sacrificing a lot of +crit or +ap for useless stats. Download a EJ spreadsheet to check your stats.
5. Your spec has some points that I would consider weird. For one, why are you only taking 3/5 points in Impurity, but put 2 in Dirge? You shouldn't be needing so much RP that a 10% reduction in bonus damage from AP is worth it. Garg is only usable every 3 minutes, UB is only 40 RP every 20 seconds (easily achieved). I don't generally use Death Coil if I'm not blood. You also need to remember that you have talents that will only be a significant DpS boost in groups, like wandering plague. 20% chance for a disease to cause double damage is nice. But it is a much higher DpS boost when you have 8 targets, all getting hit by that additional damage and all proccing more.
6. Why are you using an RP attack just before you use your Garg? That makes no sense to me. You want it to last the full 30 seconds, and it would be preferable to have AP after for UB.
7. If you are running with a Priest/Feral Druid, have them throw DP/IW on your target before using pest. It will count as your DpS on all targets but the main one. So, people that run with specific guild setups may see a lot more DpS from this.
8. Do you pop your trinkets just before using Garg?
9. Remember, group make-ups can make a LOT of difference. Running with a Paladin can get you BoM or BoK. Running with a Hunter can get you 10% more AP. Running with a Shaman makes things go dead.
Running with all of them makes things fun. >:D
****You need a LOT more expertise. It is one of the nicest DpS (and tanking) stats, especially because DKs need to hit to keep up our rotations.
Remember, I am NOT an expert. Take this with a grain of salt. One thing you REALLY need to do, though, is download an Elitist Jerks spreadsheet to check your stats.
[EDIT]
And remember to use Blood Fury. Popping it will give you an extra 362 AP for use with Garg. It is on a 2 minute CD, though, and Garg is on a 3 minute CD. You'll need to evaluate the situation to decide whether to use it when it comes up or to wait an extra minute. For example, if the boss will die in before the Garg CD is up, use it. If it will die in <30 seconds after the Garg CD is up, use it. Is there an enrage timer you are trying to beat? Otherwise, use it.
Also, because you get +5 Expertise with axes, if you can find a nice 2-hander, you may get more DpS out of it.
I also need to know whether or not you have Omen and work on riding your threat. If you don't, get it. It'll let you use Rune Strike without worrying about pulling threat, because you can see whether or not it'll take you too far over the tank's threat.
Again, go to EJ. Download a SS. Read any and all DpS threads (including the normal FaQ, it is pretty in depth).
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 2:35pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
I don't know where 4k-5k DPS comes from either. Even in 25 man raids the highest I ever see is 3300 on bosses
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
Quote:
I don't know where 4k-5k DPS comes from either. Even in 25 man raids the highest I ever see is 3300 on bosses
Let me help you then:
http://wowwebstats.com/6zsjrk1wy4cjo?s=14840-25881
It's not uncommon for people to spout out their DPS number from the Patchwerk fight which is generally considered a benchmark of testing optimal output. I'm over 5k on that fight without even really trying. It's a DPS friendly fight unless your tanks are disorganized =)
Anyway, sounds like you're doing well for the gear level you're in. Keep researching and picking up tips and such as you go on. Right now you have a lot of hit and low expertise which is pretty easy to fix, start looking to trade stats. 8% (263 hit rating) is the magic number for 2-hands to cap auto-attack but spells benefit from being over this so it's not entirely wasted. Just start looking to trade when you can.
As for idiggory's points: 1. AoE can account for some bloated numbers but people usually refer to average over all bosses for their DPS number. Of course, many people bloat their numbers too.
2. Unholy performs very well and can do better than either Blood or Frost on bosses. Please do not make unsupported claims.
3. The purple gems are there for the meta. I can't explain the orange one (i.e. swap it out for a Bold).
4. There isn't a reliable spreadsheet insofar as I'm aware yet like there is for rogues or locks. Please link if you have one.
5. Yeah, I'd move those points into Impurity as well.
6. I don't see where he's claiming to dump RP before calling the Garg.
7. No comment.
8. Good advice.
9. No comment.
Rune Strike can only be used while being attacked so if you can use it, you've pulled aggro and should be spanked.
Anyway.... Keep reading up and keep at it. Seems like you're doing fine. Good luck out there!
Anyway, sounds like you're doing well for the gear level you're in. Keep researching and picking up tips and such as you go on. Right now you have a lot of hit and low expertise which is pretty easy to fix, start looking to trade stats. 8% (263 hit rating) is the magic number for 2-hands to cap auto-attack but spells benefit from being over this so it's not entirely wasted. Just start looking to trade when you can.
As for idiggory's points: 1. AoE can account for some bloated numbers but people usually refer to average over all bosses for their DPS number. Of course, many people bloat their numbers too.
2. Unholy performs very well and can do better than either Blood or Frost on bosses. Please do not make unsupported claims.
3. The purple gems are there for the meta. I can't explain the orange one (i.e. swap it out for a Bold).
4. There isn't a reliable spreadsheet insofar as I'm aware yet like there is for rogues or locks. Please link if you have one.
5. Yeah, I'd move those points into Impurity as well.
6. I don't see where he's claiming to dump RP before calling the Garg.
7. No comment.
8. Good advice.
9. No comment.
Rune Strike can only be used while being attacked so if you can use it, you've pulled aggro and should be spanked.
Anyway.... Keep reading up and keep at it. Seems like you're doing fine. Good luck out there!
Yeah, like I said all of my DpS knowledge is second-hand. And lol at me forgetting you need to be attackd for rune strike to come up. -.-;; When tanking/solo, it is always up so I forget, lol.
I remember seeing a EJ spread sheet a little while ago, but I have no info on how reliable it is, so I assume it isn't per your comment.
And, about the runic dump, I see what I did.
I read this as death coil and then a runic dump, which was just stupid logic on my part anyway. But, regardless, I wouldn't dump RP until after the 30 seconds of Garg is done. :P
Therion, how is Unholy spec currently doing vs the DW specs (pre 3.1 nerf)?
I'm working on my tanking set now, but I'll have to start building a second set for DpS once that is done (as well as a PvP set). I should probably start researching builds now. :P
I remember seeing a EJ spread sheet a little while ago, but I have no info on how reliable it is, so I assume it isn't per your comment.
And, about the runic dump, I see what I did.
Quote:
IT/PS/BS/BS/SS/Unholy Blight,death coil runic dump/ SS when up
I read this as death coil and then a runic dump, which was just stupid logic on my part anyway. But, regardless, I wouldn't dump RP until after the 30 seconds of Garg is done. :P
Therion, how is Unholy spec currently doing vs the DW specs (pre 3.1 nerf)?
I'm working on my tanking set now, but I'll have to start building a second set for DpS once that is done (as well as a PvP set). I should probably start researching builds now. :P
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Keep in mind that the numbers people post as being ~5k are usually from 25 mans, where they're fully buffed. Not having 10% more AP, not having BoK, not having BoM, etc can reduce your numbers drastically.
As far as
I have no idea where that comes from. I am a 17/0/54 build, and I rarely see a blood or frost dk out damaging me. I was once deep blood and decided to give unholy another shot after i saw deathknights that were not as geared as i was out damage me in voa. After checking them out in the armory and going over the recount, I saw where they had talents and where their main damage attacks were from. I have not looked back since.
While obliterate may indeed do more damage than scourge strike, one has to take into account more than just one attack. As blood, you are only seeing two diseases, unholy, you are looking at three, with the chance for wandering plague to hit. the overall effect of obliterate does more, but scourge strike is shadow damage, ignores armor. With points put into impurity, your diseases will also cause more damage. with death knights being a melee class, one cannot overlook unholy blight either.
The majority of the death knights I see in 25 mans, are unholy, so I cannot really comment on how blood or dw do. I saw a dw in 25 man os a few weeks ago, and were going back and forth for damage. We had a blood dk get in our 25 man naxx last week. overall, I out damaged him, I think he only had the lead on one or two of the fights.
I would not pay too much concern about what people are saying they are doing dps on or what their ap is, just take it with a grain of salt.
Quote:
2. Unholy isn't the highest DpS spec right now, and SS < Oblit as far as damage goes, even with the third disease, so Frost/Blood tend to be higher.
I have no idea where that comes from. I am a 17/0/54 build, and I rarely see a blood or frost dk out damaging me. I was once deep blood and decided to give unholy another shot after i saw deathknights that were not as geared as i was out damage me in voa. After checking them out in the armory and going over the recount, I saw where they had talents and where their main damage attacks were from. I have not looked back since.
While obliterate may indeed do more damage than scourge strike, one has to take into account more than just one attack. As blood, you are only seeing two diseases, unholy, you are looking at three, with the chance for wandering plague to hit. the overall effect of obliterate does more, but scourge strike is shadow damage, ignores armor. With points put into impurity, your diseases will also cause more damage. with death knights being a melee class, one cannot overlook unholy blight either.
The majority of the death knights I see in 25 mans, are unholy, so I cannot really comment on how blood or dw do. I saw a dw in 25 man os a few weeks ago, and were going back and forth for damage. We had a blood dk get in our 25 man naxx last week. overall, I out damaged him, I think he only had the lead on one or two of the fights.
I would not pay too much concern about what people are saying they are doing dps on or what their ap is, just take it with a grain of salt.
I know Unholy used to be the highest spec, before the garg nerf, but was later replaced by DW which (from what I have gleemed from these boards and EJ) was the highest DpS spec for a while.
And, like I made a specific point of from the start, I'm not an authority on the matter. Not that any of this matters, since 3.1 will be out in a month or two, changing everything, anyway.
Regardless, there are some things that should be changed in that build. Nothing big, but if you really want to see better numbers they should be considered.
Then again, your numbers should be fine for your normal PuG, from what I recall.
[EDIT]
I would not pay too much concern about what people are saying they are doing dps on or what their ap is, just take it with a grain of salt.
This is true, to an extent. As long as you are honest about your DpS, you're fine. In general, guilds don't PuG 3D (from what I have seen) or other encounters where they need DpS to be really high. Either way, you siad you don't have time to raid much, so you are gold.
The only thing I would consider is trying very hard to get this from the Naxx runs you DO do. It is really an awesome sigil (it adds 200 damage more to your SS over your current sigil, which is still increased by talents and multipliers from what I understand).
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 7:52pm by idiggory
And, like I made a specific point of from the start, I'm not an authority on the matter. Not that any of this matters, since 3.1 will be out in a month or two, changing everything, anyway.
Regardless, there are some things that should be changed in that build. Nothing big, but if you really want to see better numbers they should be considered.
Then again, your numbers should be fine for your normal PuG, from what I recall.
[EDIT]
Quote:
I would not pay too much concern about what people are saying they are doing dps on or what their ap is, just take it with a grain of salt.
This is true, to an extent. As long as you are honest about your DpS, you're fine. In general, guilds don't PuG 3D (from what I have seen) or other encounters where they need DpS to be really high. Either way, you siad you don't have time to raid much, so you are gold.
The only thing I would consider is trying very hard to get this from the Naxx runs you DO do. It is really an awesome sigil (it adds 200 damage more to your SS over your current sigil, which is still increased by talents and multipliers from what I understand).
Edited, Mar 12th 2009 7:52pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Quote:
The only thing I would consider is trying very hard to get this from the Naxx runs you DO do. It is really an awesome sigil (it adds 200 damage more to your SS over your current sigil, which is still increased by talents and multipliers from what I understand).
Actually, death knights can rejoice, the sigil will be available in 3.1 via badges. I have seen it drop one time, luckily the other dk did not roll on it, so it was all mine.
Quote:
Actually, death knights can rejoice, the sigil will be available in 3.1 via badges. I have seen it drop one time, luckily the other dk did not roll on it, so it was all mine.
Awesome. I probably won't really start raiding until 3.1 anyway. I got far too many B+'s for my liking on my midterms, so I'll need to get me some higher scores to get A's for the semester.
But, on the other hand, that gives me a lot of time to really pimp out my toon with the best enchants/gems, to make progression that much easier.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Get a fight on Patchwerk and test your dps benchmark..as said before, 25 man Patchwerk's are where these 4.5K+ numbers are coming from (and often times a thousand or two higher). These people are in perfect gear and know every in and out.
A great situational boost of about 50K damage on a boss is AOTD. Make sure you channel it and aim to be done with your runes back up when you would normally attack. They WON'T taunt bosses so its a free 50k damage, why not get it? Just make sure there are no add's that spawn early in the fight or something the little people could mess up.
A great situational boost of about 50K damage on a boss is AOTD. Make sure you channel it and aim to be done with your runes back up when you would normally attack. They WON'T taunt bosses so its a free 50k damage, why not get it? Just make sure there are no add's that spawn early in the fight or something the little people could mess up.
3 posts
Thank you everybody for your helpful comments. I have fixed my spec, so that the points are into Impurity instead of Dirge. The orange gem for the stat bonus...mea culpa brain fart, but has been replaced with a +16 STR gem. I even replaced the Icewalker enchant with a straight AP enchant to lower my hit %. I'm planning on scouring the databases to see what gear I can change out to raise my Expertise, and lower my Hit %. Thank you again for the help.
Sunnymuffins
Sunnymuffins
Keep doing that and you'll be fine.^^
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
3 posts
WOOT! WOOT!
Thank you guys! I have finally been getting the most out of my gear. I am finally averaging 3000+ dps over a whole instance run or raid. I'm still looking for more expertise gear...just a few more badges.
I finally ran a wing of Naxx last weekend. It had both good and bad points. My performance was 2nd on the meter, with one death on the safety dance. LOL can't dance in real life either. The experience sure soured me on the guild I pugged it with though. The group only had one other DK(guilded), and the sigil drops. They give it to him saying that it was a bigger upgrade for him since he didn't have a sigil. What the.....??? How could you be a Naxx geared DK and not have any sigil of any kind equipped?? I finished the wing, and then left a little wiser. I will have to pick my pugs a little more carefully from now on. Everything that comes around goes around though. A friend's guild let me run with them this week and the sigil drops right into my grubby little orc hands.
Thank you guys! I have finally been getting the most out of my gear. I am finally averaging 3000+ dps over a whole instance run or raid. I'm still looking for more expertise gear...just a few more badges.
I finally ran a wing of Naxx last weekend. It had both good and bad points. My performance was 2nd on the meter, with one death on the safety dance. LOL can't dance in real life either. The experience sure soured me on the guild I pugged it with though. The group only had one other DK(guilded), and the sigil drops. They give it to him saying that it was a bigger upgrade for him since he didn't have a sigil. What the.....??? How could you be a Naxx geared DK and not have any sigil of any kind equipped?? I finished the wing, and then left a little wiser. I will have to pick my pugs a little more carefully from now on. Everything that comes around goes around though. A friend's guild let me run with them this week and the sigil drops right into my grubby little orc hands.
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