Having trouble keeping threat - Help!Follow

Hello, I need some advice!

I'm having a hard time holding threat against a warlock. We're both level 80 and this happens in heroics.

My armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kael%27thas&n=Felyra

His:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kael%27thas&n=Thewanderer

I did respec recently, I put 2/2 vindication instead of finishing off Divine Strength and 1 in Seals of the Pure.
My rotation is:
Cons, hammer of righteousness, Judge, shield of righteousness, etc.
I'm not sure if its gear or my rotation or maybe he's just stupid and spamming spells too much?

Please! Your my only hope - in assuaging my fears of being horrible at holding threat.

Warlocks are a pure dps class and if they aren't playing properly, they can pull threat very easily. I used to be in a guild with a warlock who thought that pulling threat in the first 5 seconds of a fight was a display of how uber he was. He'd typically count to 3 and then load up a shadowbolt which, at the time, crit regularly for about 10k (this was pre-WotLK when I was tanking on my druid). One parried Mangle and it was game over for the Warlock and he swore up and down it was my fault for not building threat fast enough.

Omen is a much more accurate addon now that it gets its threat information directly from the game itself instead of the educated guessing it used to do. The trouble is, it won't display threat values until you've done something to the target in question. A simple solution, regardless of the warlock's spec, would be to toss a Corruption on your main target just to get the threat reporting started...after that it's up to them to know their class and what kind of damage they're capable of and to manage their own threat so that it doesn't become an issue.

Tanks have a much easier time building threat than they did in TBC, but we still don't start out any given fight with an insurmountable threat lead. Your rotation sounds fine and while there's always room for improvement no matter how well you are doing in the content you're running, dps who pull threat on a regular basis need to look first to what they are doing and only after having done that should they be looking at the tank.

I always thought it was the DPSers job to make sure they didn't pull aggro off you...

If you tell the healer not to heal DPS that constantly pull aggro, they will suddenly stop pulling aggro. It's amazing.

If you're having trouble holding off that lock(basically same gear lvl, maybe a bit better than yours, but not like fully naxx25 geared) you'd almost have to be tanking without RF on. Unless of course this lock is a nub and dpsing by spamming searing pain, that can be hard to keep up with as it causes a very large amount of threat. It could also just be a simple thing like marking kill orders. Also check to make sure all the abilities you are using are max rank. Nothing like trying to hold aoe with rank 1 consecrate.

Your spec is ok, except filling out divine str is a must. Str = threat and mitigation, you want as much of it as possible. This is why its on nearly every piece of tanking gear you'll find in heroics/naxx/etc. Your hit rating is also really low, this may contribute to threat problems at the start of pulls. I'd suggest tossing a wpn chain on any wpn upgrade you get until you're above 5% unbuffed hit.

Sounds like you have the right idea though. Either taunt pull to your cons then AS or pull to cons using AS, really depends on the spacing of the mobs in question and if there are casters/ranged that need to be charged or los'ed. Basically for single targets i prioritize SoR as it is currently your best threat builder. For AoE(3+ mobs), you need to prioritize cons+HoR+HS in that order, using judgement and SoR on the main target only when the other 3 abilities are all on cd.



It is the dpsers job to not die while maximizing their damage, this generally means not pulling agro. However, it is the tank's #1 priority to hold threat without being a healing liability. That being said there are things a couple dps classes can do to ensure that the tank at least starts with the best possible chance, hunters should md/rogues TotT(with FoKnives for aoe). Other dps should wait for a couple ticks of cons before they aoe. Basic things that most of us assume any lvl 80 knows.

I have recently had trouble holding threat as well, specifically with a Warlock. This was especially a problem on a fight like Grobbulus where I don't have 3 tons of up-front threat before I start kiting. A 'lock that is chain casting right from the start can pull aggro off of you, especially in a situation like that, and especially if they are very good DPS.

The best thing to do is to tell them to use Omen and to start out slow on the DPS and then start throwing in the heavy-hitters once you have a bit better threat established.

Since the vast majority of Prot Paladins are not hit capped, the worst thing that can happen is to have AS (or whatever your opening move is) miss, and over-eager DPS start firing at will. That NEVER goes well.

If the Warlock is being an idiot and not DPSing the main target, you either need to mark targets (if you haven't been) or if you have been marking and the 'lock insists on DPSing the wrong target, you need to tell the healers to let him die.

You may be doing it (not sure based off of what you said), but if you're trying to maximize threat I'd recommend doing a 969696 rotation so you don't waste any GCDs. If you don't have a method, it's easy to accidentally drop GCDs and miss out on maximizing threat.

Also, all of that stuff everyone else said about your lock needing to give you a little time to build up threat at the beginning of the fight.

The DPS is pulling agro.

That means either:

1. You are not putting up a reasonable amount of agro – therefore the DPS pull agro.
2. You are putting up good agro, but the DPS is doing too much.


#1 – Are all your agro enhancers up and ticking? RF is a must. Get Armsman for your gloves. Put the threat gem in your meta socket. Open fights with max agro. (Sometimes this means throwing a shield – sometimes this means body pulls to round up mobs, situational agro control.) Get a rotation, but be willing to break it. Realize that DPS don’t understand tanking and often need you to tell them what to do. (Example: I taunt Pull things in H.UK’s Round furnace room. The mobs are too far apart to hit all of them with my shield throw. I taunt 1, lay down Consecrate, by then they are on me. Throw Shield + HoR Massive threat. BUT – if the DPS don’t realize what I’m doing – they might start their AOE too early and kill themselves. If they wait about 2 global cooldowns – they have ZERO chance of agro.)

#2 - Does the DPS have all their agro reducing abilities up? Are the ranged attackers benefiting from the ranged attack modifier? (aka – back the hell up casters.) Do they follow the kill order if one is designated? Are AOE situations planned and properly executed (Wait like 3 – 4 seconds) or do you throw a shield and see blizzard ticking before the ‘slowed’ mobs have time to reach your and your other agro enhancers? Are they chasing Damage meters? Locks have a tendency to load DoT on mobs – is the lock DoT’ing the target that your hammer or shield didn’t hit? Are pets properly set up to DPS and not tank?


Generally speaking – DPS kill themselves. When the tank screws up – it’s very noticeable. Usually multiple deaths, the tank’s running all over the place, DPS are burning oh-**** buttons… When DPS ***** up they generally kill themselves and blame the tank. Whether melee are getting WW deaths or casters are too fast… I love the new ‘split’ pull in VH. I tell them not to do anything, but always there’s one DPS who opens up….

This is a very valid point. If you're tanking an average mob of three gribbles, and one of them mysteriously peels of you to go eat the mage...well, not exactly rocket science is it:) Case in point, one of our guilds warriors- stellar bloke, friendly, willing, helpful...and a bloody liability in a raid. 5 deaths later it came to light that he didn't know how to get/ install Omen. Well, 2 mins of vent explanation and he's all set and a damn good guy to run with. So, sometimes it can be explained but, unless it's a mate, usually assume it's a f*cktard and move on...

Also, going back to the 'tank running all over the shop' thing...I only had that once (so far). I face pulled, hit conc. and before I can get AS/ HoTR off the ground I have a blizzard ticking away and a boomkins AoE thingy (don't know what it's called- looks like thunder and lightning storm) kicking off. Funnily enough, 2 mobs go howling to eat a frost mage and 1 goes to make friends with a boomkin :) I hoon 'round like a good 'un, blowing RD, direct taunts and keep the nasties off our healer and shammy. Well, the ******** and whining from the corpses was monumental- i sucked as a tank, had no business running heroics etc etc. Well, I explained that threat isn't an instant thing, that they need to wait for a tank to build agg ( a slow count of 5 should do it) and that they are entirely free to make love elsewhere. Uninvite, 2 new dips and a solemn vow to only pug at gun point :)

So, unfortunately a well geared dips can easily pull threat off of you. A well *played*, well geared dips won't.

Ttfn,

Jon.