From the talent builds for ret currently available on the PTR, assuming the patch goes live with no new retribution talents. For PVE purposes taking divine str from prot is there any reason at all to allocate more than 55 points to ret and just leave 11 points unallocated?
I am really hoping for some sort of talent or talents to be added for pve purposes. I guess it will be nice to be able to spec to allow a strong but not total pvp spec while having every pve dps talent taken, however it just seems lackluster that the last eleven talent points you have gained are meaningless for dps.
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are you talkin about a talent build for the test realm or a build for live.
With the changes that are currently on test. With BOK becoming baseline we already get five points with no real good spot to put them in. With the loss of ranks in our deep talents we gain more. To even get down to solely 11 points remaining I put two points into pursuit of justice which while its fun to run fast is not a pve dps boosting talent. Using the new calculator on mmo champion.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=
I have seen nothing in the notes or on any of the paladin forums about any new talents either which leads me to assume we aren't getting anything. Hell it would be nice if they gave us the old hit increasing talent again. Or perhaps simply merged the hit increase with sanctified seals. If they merged the talents like sanctified seals and conviction which are nothing more than the same thing now the tree would look even weaker.
The tree just seems very unfinished to me with all the points just hanging.
Edited, Feb 28th 2009 10:55am by Grooboggle
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=
I have seen nothing in the notes or on any of the paladin forums about any new talents either which leads me to assume we aren't getting anything. Hell it would be nice if they gave us the old hit increasing talent again. Or perhaps simply merged the hit increase with sanctified seals. If they merged the talents like sanctified seals and conviction which are nothing more than the same thing now the tree would look even weaker.
The tree just seems very unfinished to me with all the points just hanging.
Edited, Feb 28th 2009 10:55am by Grooboggle
I personally like the fact that they're trimming some of the bloat from the Ret tree. It's not like they're removing DPS talents you already had; they're just letting you have everything you DID and more. If I were a Ret specced Paladin, I'd be very tempted to spec down Protection to Divine Guardian and still be able to get ~100% of the PVE DPS talents I needed for Retribution.
What feels 'unfinished' about the tree? There's no reason that Blizzard has to give you additional DPS increasing talents if Ret's DPS is already good.
What feels 'unfinished' about the tree? There's no reason that Blizzard has to give you additional DPS increasing talents if Ret's DPS is already good.
Ret's dps is adequate in the situation where much of the main raid is undead so while we are going to maintain exorcism we are going to lose holy wrath. Really don't want to get into a debate over where ret's dps should come in , however we are at the bottom end of dps of any parse of skilled and geared dps. Not by much, and still hugely better than in BC but its not like rets are tearing up the dps charts.
However this dps is getting nerfed as well in the new talent tree. RV and Fanaticism both lost two ranks which causes both lost crit and damage unless the lost damage gets rolled in somewhere else.
Sanctified seals is one of the examples of a broken talent. It is the same as conviction as it stands after the change to make seals nondispellable. Either roll it into more ranks of conviction or give it a solid secondary ability again.
However this dps is getting nerfed as well in the new talent tree. RV and Fanaticism both lost two ranks which causes both lost crit and damage unless the lost damage gets rolled in somewhere else.
Sanctified seals is one of the examples of a broken talent. It is the same as conviction as it stands after the change to make seals nondispellable. Either roll it into more ranks of conviction or give it a solid secondary ability again.
Yes, you're going to lose 7% +crit with Judgements, and 10% bonus crit dmg with Judgements and Divine Storm.
I'm not sure how massive that's going to be, but I think they're nerfing a lot of DPS to bring them all closer to the same baseline (I believe they said Rogues were too low in PvE, but some of the changes have made them even worse).
They're also not "finished" with 3.1, they may throw a DPS talent into another tree (my guess would be Prot).
I'm not sure how massive that's going to be, but I think they're nerfing a lot of DPS to bring them all closer to the same baseline (I believe they said Rogues were too low in PvE, but some of the changes have made them even worse).
They're also not "finished" with 3.1, they may throw a DPS talent into another tree (my guess would be Prot).
Scholar
39 posts
I'm very upset about the nerfs to the ret talents. We were not op, despite what other classes have said. When not fighting undead, there is a significant decrease in DPS, and the nerf will only make it worse. I'm a little puzzled as to why blizzard is doing this. Ret was pretty good as is.
Not too sure where I'll put the extra talent points. Without kings, it does make for a better arena/pvp spec, considering you can go deeper into the protection tree.
Just looking at the whole change, it seems they nerfed us for PvE, but made us deadlier in PvP, and we were already damn good in PvP. A 0/17/53 spec seems almost op in arena if you take Guardians Favor, Stoicism, Toughness, and Improved Hammer of Justice.
The whole thing is just so odd, and leads me to believe that something else is coming to balance it all out.
Not too sure where I'll put the extra talent points. Without kings, it does make for a better arena/pvp spec, considering you can go deeper into the protection tree.
Just looking at the whole change, it seems they nerfed us for PvE, but made us deadlier in PvP, and we were already damn good in PvP. A 0/17/53 spec seems almost op in arena if you take Guardians Favor, Stoicism, Toughness, and Improved Hammer of Justice.
The whole thing is just so odd, and leads me to believe that something else is coming to balance it all out.
maybe they will put DS as it was the first time it came alive...
that would fix everything ^_^
that would fix everything ^_^
I'm a little worried by the loss in PvE damage. It seems like the extra talent points that are freed up could be invested in Prot to get some extra utility (going down far enough to pick up divine guardian seems like it would be very useful in some situations. Off the top of my head, before a Malygos breath attack or Vortex to take some pressure off the healers? Or maybe in conjunction with blessing of sacrifice to give a tank or healer some serious damage reduction for 12 seconds).
Blessing of Kings if i recall correctly is being replaced by something that increases healing done and received by 5% for 5 ranks. Very useful for tanks and healers, useless for retribution. It seems rets as a hybrid will be trailing the damage meters a little more but providing the ever popular buffs and utility.
Also: Always always take Pursuit of Justice in a raid dps spec. It increases dps. There are situations in almost every fight where you have to get from A to B before starting to dps again, and 15% speed is better than any metagem or run speed enchant.
Blessing of Kings if i recall correctly is being replaced by something that increases healing done and received by 5% for 5 ranks. Very useful for tanks and healers, useless for retribution. It seems rets as a hybrid will be trailing the damage meters a little more but providing the ever popular buffs and utility.
Also: Always always take Pursuit of Justice in a raid dps spec. It increases dps. There are situations in almost every fight where you have to get from A to B before starting to dps again, and 15% speed is better than any metagem or run speed enchant.
i saw these types arguments being spammed in trade chat. you gotta understand, these are PTR talents/spells/glyphs. every class is getting the wildcard treatment in the PTR, almost like they are just throwing **** out there for the players to have fun with.
i'd estimate at least 2 more months of testing before 3.1 goes live. during that time you will see talents and abilities coming back into line.
my one beef with the apparent direction of the game, specifically pallies, is the use of glyphs. instead of glyphs being a customization, they have turned into "a new talent tree". likewise, the classes are needing to be balanced by yet another artificial factor.
i love seeing glyphs that shave off CDs, lower mana costs, or facelift certain spells. but it has become an aspect where you stack the latest and greatest to /faceroll the content and competition.
case in point:
Glyph of Exorcism - Increases damage done by Exorcism by 20%.
Glyph of Judgement - Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.
Glyph of Seal of Command - Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
might as well combine into [Glyph of PvP - Increases your rotation damage by 15%]
a side beef: i solo'd Araj and his crew as a 58 Blood DK w/o breaking a sweat. i needed a 3-group when i was a 60 pally. maybe WoW needs a roll-back...just sayin.
i'd estimate at least 2 more months of testing before 3.1 goes live. during that time you will see talents and abilities coming back into line.
my one beef with the apparent direction of the game, specifically pallies, is the use of glyphs. instead of glyphs being a customization, they have turned into "a new talent tree". likewise, the classes are needing to be balanced by yet another artificial factor.
i love seeing glyphs that shave off CDs, lower mana costs, or facelift certain spells. but it has become an aspect where you stack the latest and greatest to /faceroll the content and competition.
case in point:
Glyph of Exorcism - Increases damage done by Exorcism by 20%.
Glyph of Judgement - Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.
Glyph of Seal of Command - Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
might as well combine into [Glyph of PvP - Increases your rotation damage by 15%]
a side beef: i solo'd Araj and his crew as a 58 Blood DK w/o breaking a sweat. i needed a 3-group when i was a 60 pally. maybe WoW needs a roll-back...just sayin.
You must have done Araj on a Ret Paladin pre 3.0 or something. I was able to solo him recently on a Ret Pally at 57 and he didn't hurt all that much. Pre 3.0 I would have never dreamed of trying that, but about a month ago he wasn't exactly cake with a 57 Ret Pally, but I didn't have to blow LoH until very late in the fight and he didn't hurt me much after that at all.
I like the fact that they are taking some of the bloat out of the Ret Tree, but I don't like the fact that they are reducing our damage in the process. However, Exorcism is now going to work on everything rather than just undead, so this will make up for any loss in DPS by a bit anyway, and give us something else to regularly work into the rotation.
As far as where to put the extra points, I am sure that they are going into the Prot Tree, but I have not figured out precisely where yet. It seems like Ret's may not really need to dual-spec for PvE/PvP because it is possible that one spec may be perfectly viable for both. I am not certain of that yet, but it is possible.
I like the fact that they are taking some of the bloat out of the Ret Tree, but I don't like the fact that they are reducing our damage in the process. However, Exorcism is now going to work on everything rather than just undead, so this will make up for any loss in DPS by a bit anyway, and give us something else to regularly work into the rotation.
As far as where to put the extra points, I am sure that they are going into the Prot Tree, but I have not figured out precisely where yet. It seems like Ret's may not really need to dual-spec for PvE/PvP because it is possible that one spec may be perfectly viable for both. I am not certain of that yet, but it is possible.
You could always put the extra points into Holy for more INT and or Healing power. I know it does not increase DPS but I do emergency heal at times. I try and heal myself if the healers are behind or on the occasion that we are close to beating a tough boss and one of our healers dies I often switch to emergency healer role. Sometimes I heal on 4 horsemen right from the start with my holy set on. Of course with dual specs coming out this might happen less that I have to heal while not being specced for it but we will just have to see on that one.
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