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Rogue 3.1 stuffFollow

#1 Feb 24 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Skills/Talents
Quote:
Rogue
Assassination
Skills

* Envenom now gives an additional 15% chance to apply Deadly Poison and a 75% increased frequency of applying Instant Poison for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point. (Previously gave a 15% chance to apply both deadly and instant poison)
* Expose Armor now reduces armor by 20%, lasting longer per combo point.

Talents

* Hunger For Blood (Tier 11) changed to: Enrages you, increasing all damage caused by 15%. Requires a bleed effect to be active on the target. Lasts 30 sec. (Previously increased damage by 5%)
* Improved Poisons (Tier 4) changed to increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 2/4/6/8/10% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 10/20/30/40/50%. (Previously increased chance to apply Deadly and Instant poison by 2/4/6/8/10%)


Combat
Talents

* Savage Combat (Tier 9) now increases damage caused against poison enemies by 4%. (Previously increased damage by 1%)
* Adrenaline Rush (Tier 7) cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.
* Lightning Reflexes (Tier 4) is now a 3 point talent and Increases your Dodge chance by 2/4/6% and gives you 4/7/10% melee haste. (Previously just increased dodge by 1/2/3/4/5%)


Glyphs
Quote:
Rogue (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)

* Glyph of Sap -- Increases the duration of Sap by 20 sec. (Old: 10 sec.)
* Glyph of Deadly Throw -- Increases the slowing effect on Deadly Throw by 10%. (Old: Increases the range on Deadly Throw by 5 yards.)
* Glyph of Adrenaline Rush -- Increases the duration of Adrenaline Rush by 5 sec. (Old: Decreases the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush by 60 sec.)
* Glyph of Sprint -- Increases the movement speed of your Sprint ability by an additional 30%. (Old: also reduced the duration by 5%)
* Glyph of Crippling Poison -- Increases the chance to inflict your target with Crippling Poison by an additional 20%. (Old: 10%)
* Glyph of Pick Lock -- Reduces the cast time of your Pick Lock ability by 100%. (Old: 75)
* Glyph of Hunger For Blood *new* -- Increases the bonus damage from Hunger For Blood by 1% per application.
* Glyph of Killing Spree *new* -- Reduces the cooldown on Killing Spree by 45 sec.
* Glyph of Shadow Dance *new* -- Increases the duration of Shadow Dance by 4 sec.
* Glyph of Fan of Knives *new* -- Increases the damage done by Fan of Knives by 20%.
* Glyph of Tricks of the Trade *new* -- Your Tricks of the Trade grants an additional 10% bonus damage to your target.
* Glyph of Mutilate *new* -- Reduces the cost of Mutilate by 5 energy.
* Glyph of Cloak of Shadows *new* -- While Cloak of Shadows is active, you take 40% less physical damage.


So.. I'm excited to play again. Expecially looking at some of the priest things (2v2 partner).. their mana regen has been more or less doubled, he's now 30% resistant to stun/fear/silence. Self pennance, and dispelled/beaten through shields give me 16 energy and him 3.5% mana.

HERRO.


Regardless, some of the new rogue glyphs make me wish I had about 10 glyph slots. No word on what is major and minor but I'm hopeful.. Mutilate/Cloak/Prep or Vigor for pvp, Mutilate/FoK/Rupture for raiding.


The changes to Envenom + Improved poisons have me confused, though. 20% + 50% + 75% = 145% chance to apply instant poison? o_o
#2 Feb 24 2009 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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The new dual-spec doesn't include interchangable glyphs does it?
#3 Feb 24 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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920 posts
From what they have on the General forums the dual spec will include glyphs and even action bar setup. You will initially set up your talent/glyphs/action bars and then each time you switch between the two specs it will go back to the way it was the first time you set it up.
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#4 Feb 24 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Rogue
Assassination
Skills

* Envenom now gives an additional 15% chance to apply Deadly Poison and a 75% increased frequency of applying Instant Poison for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point. (Previously gave a 15% chance to apply both deadly and instant poison)
* Expose Armor now reduces armor by 20%, lasting longer per combo point.

Talents

* Hunger For Blood (Tier 11) changed to: Enrages you, increasing all damage caused by 15%. Requires a bleed effect to be active on the target. Lasts 30 sec. (Previously increased damage by 5%)
* Improved Poisons (Tier 4) changed to increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 2/4/6/8/10% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 10/20/30/40/50%. (Previously increased chance to apply Deadly and Instant poison by 2/4/6/8/10%)


Combat
Talents

* Savage Combat (Tier 9) now increases damage caused against poison enemies by 4%. (Previously increased damage by 1%)
* Adrenaline Rush (Tier 7) cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.
* Lightning Reflexes (Tier 4) is now a 3 point talent and Increases your Dodge chance by 2/4/6% and gives you 4/7/10% melee haste. (Previously just increased dodge by 1/2/3/4/5%)


Quote:
The changes to Envenom + Improved poisons have me confused, though. 20% + 50% + 75% = 145% chance to apply instant poison? o_o


The wording makes it sound like Instant Poison is going to be changed to a PPM type of effect. On the outside it looks like a buff, but depending upon the base internal CD it's either no change at all or actually worse than it started out. Blizz keeps talking about buffing Rogue PvE, but then they throw around iffy changes. Oh well, this is all still in the works and there's plenty of time for change.
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#5 Feb 24 2009 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
Poisons are PPm on PTR. From initial reports it's a nerf.
#6 Feb 24 2009 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
If they end up nerfing rogue's dps again or just changing it with no real effect I'm ganna be insanely pissed at blizz... Anyway the ppm change seems like its directed solely at the rogues using IP/IP as mut now, assuming its a shared proc between hands that is.
#7 Feb 24 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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ThomasMagnum wrote:
The new dual-spec doesn't include interchangable glyphs does it?


Blizzard stated it will.
#8 Feb 24 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
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924 posts
Well crap.. thanks for the mechanics changes that don't actually change anything, blizzard.

PPM poisons? If wound goes PPM and if the average isn't close to the same, I'm probably going to put a lot more effort into leveling my pally.
#9 Feb 24 2009 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
Well based on some very recent tests on ej, it seems that the ppm system for PT on ptr is normalized around a 1.4 weapon speed, which means that dual slow might end up being better with a IP/DP envenom setup.. with mutilates costing less this has good potential to end up being a dps increase, not as significant as I was expecting personally.
#10 Feb 24 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
XxwrathofcarbunclexX wrote:
Well based on some very recent tests on ej, it seems that the ppm system for PT on ptr is normalized around a 1.4 weapon speed, which means that dual slow might end up being better with a IP/DP envenom setup.. with mutilates costing less this has good potential to end up being a dps increase, not as significant as I was expecting personally.


Don't forget Focused Attacks. Which still favors faster weapon speed.
#11 Feb 24 2009 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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302 posts
* Glyph of Hunger For Blood *new* -- Increases the bonus damage from Hunger For Blood by 1% per application.


What does this even mean? I'm getting more and more confused by these changes.

Correct me if i'm wrong on what I understand:

HfB only works when there's a bleed effect on your target, last 30 sec, increases damage by 15%.

Now does it proc automatically? or do you have to "cast/use" it? does that extra damage only go to the target with the bleed? or all targets within that 30 sec? If the bleed fades, do you lose hfb?

and whats up with the glyph above? 1% per applicaton? what does that mean? so you can have more than one application of hfb? or bleed effect? i thought they were getting rid of stacks of hfb, hence the change mentioned in the 3.1 notes. per application of what? poison? AAARRRGGHHH!!!

The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

Edit: actually, the more I think about it, maybe it means if you use HfB again on the same target? Like on a boss you could apply it say 10 times over 300 seconds for an extra 10% damage increase? ie 1 hfb every thirty secons over 300 seconds = 10 applications of hfb on the target.

Edited, Feb 24th 2009 9:20pm by charredmeat
#12 Feb 24 2009 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Bad wording is bad. I was confused by that too, and I suspect it'll be corrected sooner or later. There are a lot of things like that (such as adding a Glyph for a Priest spell that the very same patch notes said was being removed anyway) that I've caught in the notes.

Edited, Feb 24th 2009 10:38pm by MasterOutlaw
____________________________
FFXI (Retired)
Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O

WoW
Naiyah | B.Elf | 85 Rogue | Stormscale
Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale


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#13 Feb 25 2009 at 4:26 AM Rating: Good
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101 posts
Banatu wrote:
Mutilate/Cloak/Prep or Vigor for pvp, Mutilate/FoK/Rupture for raiding.

For raiding I would go for Mutilate/Hunger for Blood/Rupture glyphs. About Hunger for Blood glyph, Ghostcrawler wrote somewhere (I don't remember if I seen this on mmo-champion or official forum) that it will give 3% more damage to Hunger for Blood. So it will be 15% without glyph, 18% with glyph.

About Focused Attacks... I still don't get it how will HfB work. Mob is bleeding = you can use HfB on him? If yes then it would be nerf to HfB. Honestly I am confused about HfB. Anyway FA and slower daggers, well Mutilate glyph will reduced energy cost of Mutilate by 5, so FA will be slightly less important.

Oh well, we need to wait anyway for more changes and clarifications.

PS. It is sad that PvE Mutilate rogue is so dependant on Hunger for Blood. This one talent alone gives 15-18% more damage. It's like Blizzard don't have idea about assassination tree, and it looks like HfB is temporary change (I think they will want to change assassination tree after few months).
#14 Feb 25 2009 at 5:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,225 posts
Quote:


Combat
Talents

* Savage Combat (Tier 9) now increases damage caused against poison enemies by 4%. (Previously increased damage by 1%)
* Adrenaline Rush (Tier 7) cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.
* Lightning Reflexes (Tier 4) is now a 3 point talent and Increases your Dodge chance by 2/4/6% and gives you 4/7/10% melee haste. (Previously just increased dodge by 1/2/3/4/5%)


Glyphs
Quote:
Rogue (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)

* Glyph of Adrenaline Rush -- Increases the duration of Adrenaline Rush by 5 sec. (Old: Decreases the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush by 60 sec.)
* Glyph of Killing Spree *new* -- Reduces the cooldown on Killing Spree by 45 sec.
* Glyph of Fan of Knives *new* -- Increases the damage done by Fan of Knives by 20%.
* Glyph of Tricks of the Trade *new* -- Your Tricks of the Trade grants an additional 10% bonus damage to your target.


2 of these glyphs are usless, as far as I can tell and 2 are worth having. Can you guess which?

Fan of Knives already gives rogues huge dps when used properly, which turns rogues from über single target killers to AoE trash beaters in the blink of an eye. An extra 20% on top of huge dps? Yes please!

Tricks of the trade serves the purpose of giving tanks a head-start or increasing the next highest dps-er's dps but it last so short a time, it's not worth glyphing for.

Adrenaline Rush is godly right now, at 4 minutes cooldown (glyphed). To bring it down to 3 minutes is just wonderful and also to extend its duration by 33% (15 seconds to 20 seconds), that's mind-blowing. Overall it's a 78% increase in Adrenaline Rush time

Killing Spree is not a talent I use much unless there's two (or more) mobs and Blade Flurry is available. Since there's no change to Blade Flurry, I wouldn't use Killing Spree more often even if I had the glyph.

I'll have to see whether it's worth adding Lightning Reflexes, i.e. what I'll have to drop to get it.
#15 Feb 25 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I throw on 1.8 speed daggers for aoe packs with wound/wound and have clocked in at over 30k dps on double spider trash pulls before.

._. another 20%? **** YES.


Needless to say I'm excited for uludar. And sigh, still no Sinister Revenge. Pretty soon I'm gonna have to stop taking items or I'll lose it to a 1300's rogue ._.
#16 Feb 25 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
* Glyph of Tricks of the Trade *new* -- Your Tricks of the Trade grants an additional 10% bonus damage to your target.


Am i right in thinking this is 25% extra damage to the target ... could 2 rogues cast it on each other and balance out threat normally for the extra damage??? just a thought
#17 Feb 25 2009 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Placidshadow wrote:
Quote:
* Glyph of Tricks of the Trade *new* -- Your Tricks of the Trade grants an additional 10% bonus damage to your target.


Am i right in thinking this is 25% extra damage to the target ... could 2 rogues cast it on each other and balance out threat normally for the extra damage??? just a thought


That's how it currently works, yes. The trade off is the higher threat. Rogues can use vanish to drop threat but it's still situational.
#18 Feb 25 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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924 posts
It's 10% * 6 seconds/30 seconds so a grand total of a 2% dps increase if you're trading tricks with another rogue and have it glyphed vs. non glyphed.

I'd swap tricks with other rogues but I don't trust them to be smart enough to tricks me back even remotely on the cooldown, nor notice that they're riding the MT's *** for threat and vanish. So I just tricks off the pull and then for the rest of the time tricks a warlock or mage so they can't dps half the time ^^

Gotta love casualcraft.
#19 Feb 25 2009 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZMgVoxcxoru0xRt

So I'm figuring that's what the combat tree talents will look like once 3.1 goes live. The point in endurance can go pretty much anywhere in a CQC build, but it pretty much has to go in Endurance in a combat swords build.

3.1 will effectively put an end to fist/sword builds as well as you don't have the talent points to get 3/3 Lightning Reflexes and 2 weapon specs.
#20 Feb 27 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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