I believe this is a buff for all specs, Ret may think its a nerf with only being able to do 50% dmg to other enemies when u cast Divine Shield on yourself. But... we can now cast avenging Wrath in Arenas or instances and the cast Divine Shield 3o sec later instead of 2 minuets. Me being a Ret pally I never really used my bubble as an offenisive ability too much, then again I started doing 3vs3 with a DK, Resto Druid and I am 1 of the 1st targeted players now so I do use it alittle more but still. Prot gets a new taunt thats ranged andf causes aggro so they can now taunt several mobs from a ranged distance. Sacred duty doesn't reduce your CD on Divine Protection which kinda sux but it's only a min and you do get stam now from it. I might be alittle incorrect on what Sacred Shield will be like but I think it's gonna be more of a change then a nerf. Holy gets a minor buffs nothing but significant but then again they are the top healer in the game right now in arena's and thats where the buff contributes to with xtra dmg from Judgements. Now JUDGEMENT OF WISDOM: It now returns 2% of your BASE mana which means 2% of however much mana you have not your MAX mana at 1%. So basically If you judge wisdom when you have 50% mana it will return the same amount as usual and if you judge it above 50% you will get nmore mana back then the previous patch. This can be good and bad. But now that Mana Burns are at a % of the targets mana and we do have Divine Plea I believe it's a buff if your not a sloppy player. It might be alittle bit of a nerf for PvE if you use Consecration(which I use in my rotation) but you could just get spiritual attunement Glyph and theirs another Gkyph that has mana return if you use i think corruption/matyr seal. I think this will help ret pallys keep their Mana toped off pretty much in arena. Especially if your getting heals your not gonna be low on mana at all regardless of mana burns.
So what do you think? Was it a total Buff for pallys or do you think Ret will suffer with the Bubble nerf? I think will be just fine, although I have become fond of bubbling to drop someone in 3vs3. But now i can use Avenging Wrath which I totaly wreck people especially if I feel like living on the edge and casting Seal of Blood on me right after Wings{:>}. If your a good Pally you should be able to use Seal of Blood, not in all situations but its very deadly.
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I noticed my Glyph of Hammer of Justice had it's extension removed. Range was increased though.
Also saw that mining is a one-shot deal. No longer have to worry about Horde ganker's trying to steal remaining hits on them.
Also saw that mining is a one-shot deal. No longer have to worry about Horde ganker's trying to steal remaining hits on them.
i'm a little confused about judgement of wisdom. Does that mean it will be less effective? sounds like it. I'm mainly talking about ret levelling which is what I'm doing. I have a level 69 ret pally. ret is mainly for levelling. doubt I'll do it at 80 since everyone and their sister is a ret pally. But I go through mana like crazy. And I don't even use consecration (not for one mob lol- I will use it for 2).
I never use bubble lol. Little use for pve. pallies are so OP right now I never find a need for it.
Edited, Jan 20th 2009 10:40am by thrashering
I never use bubble lol. Little use for pve. pallies are so OP right now I never find a need for it.
Edited, Jan 20th 2009 10:40am by thrashering
the change to Wisdom is a buff for Rets only from what i understand, any class that reachers 2x mana then their base will obviously be a nerf for them,ie, all casters. dont know if hunters or enhance shamens would see a change.
and the change to HoJ was actually suppose to be hot fixed months ago, they just never updated the tool tip to a range increase. although i may be wrong about that (i really dont think i am).
one thing i noticed, is that the patch notes dont mention the buff to seal of blood, only the buff to seal of command to scale off some Spell power now. is this an patch notes oversight or did they decide that seal of blood was fine?
and the change to HoJ was actually suppose to be hot fixed months ago, they just never updated the tool tip to a range increase. although i may be wrong about that (i really dont think i am).
one thing i noticed, is that the patch notes dont mention the buff to seal of blood, only the buff to seal of command to scale off some Spell power now. is this an patch notes oversight or did they decide that seal of blood was fine?
JoW change is a buff for ret and prot, roughly no change or a slight buff for most hunters and enhance shammies, and a nerf to all straight casters.
Holy doesn't care, though, so it's an overall buff to paladins. I like it.
Seal of Blood wasn't changed in the patch. The damage wasn't increased, the tooltip was just stating a lower than actual damage. The tooltip was fixed.
Holy doesn't care, though, so it's an overall buff to paladins. I like it.
Seal of Blood wasn't changed in the patch. The damage wasn't increased, the tooltip was just stating a lower than actual damage. The tooltip was fixed.
11 posts
This is how it works Thrashering before this patch came out. Every time you used your JoW regardless the seal you had on it would instantly return 1% of your MAX mana and evry hit on the enemy would return 1% of your mana to you then your Judgement of Wise would kick in like a hot only replenishing your mana not health. So for example: If you have 5,000 mana and your in a fight and your down to 68% mana and casted JoW and then lets say your at 65% mana now, every swing on that enemy after he's judged would increase your mana by 1%.
Now this is how it's supposed to work in this current patch 3.0.8 from what i have read.
It states the following "JoW will now return 2% of your BASE(meaning how ever much mana you currently have, 2% of that) mana instead of 1% of your MAX mana. So on my Paladin i have 5644 mana. So lets say i'm in the middle of a fight and I have 3000 mana left and hit somebody that has JoW on them I would get 2% of my 3000 mana back which would be 60 mana. In the old patch when it was 1% of MAX mana I would get 54.66% mana back regardless of what my mana was. Ok so heres the game changer i'm going to give you a few examples of the mana return you will get in the new patch, in the old patch every swing you get 54.66 mana back no matter what cause my max mana is 5466.
Im currently at 90% mana(4919.4)I hit him and get 2% mana back which equals 98.39 mana instead of the old way at 54.66
Im currently at 75% mana(4099.5)I hit him and get 2% mana back which equals 81.99 mana instead of 54.66
60% mana(3279.6) 2% mana = 65.59 instead of 54.66
50% mana(2733) 2% mana = 54.66 which is the same as the old way.
KK here's what sux, when your below 50% mana your goin to get less back then the old way. so when your above 50% mana its a buff when your below 50% mana its a nerf.
40% mana(2186.4) 2% = 43.73 instead of 54.66
25% mana(1366.5) 2% = 27.33 instead of 54.66
10% mana(5466.6) 2% = 10.93 instead of 54.66 = your *#@ked
So stay above 50% if your getting heals you'll be fine I suggest using your Divine Plea as soon as your at 75% mana I wouldnt wait till your at 50% plus if you do use it at 75% your gonna top off or be close so by the time you do reach 50% which is gonna take alot longer the CD will be up again. Overall it's a buff if you use it correctly. If you get lower than 25-35% mana you might wanna pop seal of wisdom and you'll boost your mana back up in no time regardless.
Now this is how it's supposed to work in this current patch 3.0.8 from what i have read.
It states the following "JoW will now return 2% of your BASE(meaning how ever much mana you currently have, 2% of that) mana instead of 1% of your MAX mana. So on my Paladin i have 5644 mana. So lets say i'm in the middle of a fight and I have 3000 mana left and hit somebody that has JoW on them I would get 2% of my 3000 mana back which would be 60 mana. In the old patch when it was 1% of MAX mana I would get 54.66% mana back regardless of what my mana was. Ok so heres the game changer i'm going to give you a few examples of the mana return you will get in the new patch, in the old patch every swing you get 54.66 mana back no matter what cause my max mana is 5466.
Im currently at 90% mana(4919.4)I hit him and get 2% mana back which equals 98.39 mana instead of the old way at 54.66
Im currently at 75% mana(4099.5)I hit him and get 2% mana back which equals 81.99 mana instead of 54.66
60% mana(3279.6) 2% mana = 65.59 instead of 54.66
50% mana(2733) 2% mana = 54.66 which is the same as the old way.
KK here's what sux, when your below 50% mana your goin to get less back then the old way. so when your above 50% mana its a buff when your below 50% mana its a nerf.
40% mana(2186.4) 2% = 43.73 instead of 54.66
25% mana(1366.5) 2% = 27.33 instead of 54.66
10% mana(5466.6) 2% = 10.93 instead of 54.66 = your *#@ked
So stay above 50% if your getting heals you'll be fine I suggest using your Divine Plea as soon as your at 75% mana I wouldnt wait till your at 50% plus if you do use it at 75% your gonna top off or be close so by the time you do reach 50% which is gonna take alot longer the CD will be up again. Overall it's a buff if you use it correctly. If you get lower than 25-35% mana you might wanna pop seal of wisdom and you'll boost your mana back up in no time regardless.
No, no, no. You're thinking current mana. Base mana is different. Base mana is your classes mana on a character with 0 intellect and no +mana talents.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Base_mana
For a paladin, base mana is 4394. Unbuffed max mana for a BE prot or ret pally is 5644. 2% of base is 87, while 1% of max unbuffed is 56. Even with AI, Kings, and MotW, 2% of base is more than 1% max. Even on my ret pally, where I have a bunch of Naxx mail no one wanted, it's the new 87 vs. about 81.
Edit: Oops, I was reading level 70 values. Redid my math.
Edited, Jan 20th 2009 3:42pm by Ehcks
http://www.wowwiki.com/Base_mana
For a paladin, base mana is 4394. Unbuffed max mana for a BE prot or ret pally is 5644. 2% of base is 87, while 1% of max unbuffed is 56. Even with AI, Kings, and MotW, 2% of base is more than 1% max. Even on my ret pally, where I have a bunch of Naxx mail no one wanted, it's the new 87 vs. about 81.
Edit: Oops, I was reading level 70 values. Redid my math.
Edited, Jan 20th 2009 3:42pm by Ehcks
26 posts
Thanks Retardedin for clearing that up, I was cursing the JoW as a major nerf until I read your break down. This makes more sense, and should make lvlin as prot a little easier (meaning less down time). I've been popping Divine Plea at the end of each fight to more or less keep even as I quest.
I'll switch it up and move my seals and judgments around for solo lvlin. Not sure how the new taunt is going to work, going to see if I can convince some guildies to let me experiment :)
I'll switch it up and move my seals and judgments around for solo lvlin. Not sure how the new taunt is going to work, going to see if I can convince some guildies to let me experiment :)
Reconza wrote:
Thanks Retardedin for clearing that up, I was cursing the JoW as a major nerf until I read your break down. This makes more sense, and should make lvlin as prot a little easier (meaning less down time). I've been popping Divine Plea at the end of each fight to more or less keep even as I quest.
I'll switch it up and move my seals and judgments around for solo lvlin. Not sure how the new taunt is going to work, going to see if I can convince some guildies to let me experiment :)
I'll switch it up and move my seals and judgments around for solo lvlin. Not sure how the new taunt is going to work, going to see if I can convince some guildies to let me experiment :)
Nono... that's still wrong. Look at Ehcks post right after his for the current way of how JoW works now. Basically what you need to know is that it was a buff to Retribution and Protection Paladins and pretty much a nerf to everyone else.
The change to DS and AW is actually the biggest buff for Holy Pallies as we will now be able to use AW without hampering out biggest "Oh S'hit" button in the game to greatly.
Kind of eager to start using it a bit more.
Kind of eager to start using it a bit more.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I know the seal of blood thing was only a tooltip change, but did that Righteous Vengeance buff go through (allowing it to stack to 5 instead of the current 3)? I'm in Europe, the realms just went down. Looking foward to naxx tomorrow night. We'll see who beats me on Gothik by chain-casting volley now...../grumble
As a holy paladin I'm kind of annoyed about JoW nerf and the not-full-damage-while-bubbled (which was pretty much the only thing a holy paladin has going for them in a 1v1 situation in pvp).
I'm scheduled to be furious once I find out how much they nerfed the spellpower on my titansteel guardian.
The only good I can see as holy is "Forbearance removed from Avenging Wrath" and the new taunt to throw into the limited rotation when you want to actually damage something (if it does decent damage- though it probably won't).
So on the whole- kind of annoyed.
I'm scheduled to be furious once I find out how much they nerfed the spellpower on my titansteel guardian.
The only good I can see as holy is "Forbearance removed from Avenging Wrath" and the new taunt to throw into the limited rotation when you want to actually damage something (if it does decent damage- though it probably won't).
So on the whole- kind of annoyed.
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
I know the seal of blood thing was only a tooltip change, but did that Righteous Vengeance buff go through (allowing it to stack to 5 instead of the current 3)? I'm in Europe, the realms just went down. Looking foward to naxx tomorrow night. We'll see who beats me on Gothik by chain-casting volley now...../grumble
Righteous Vengeance doesn't stack. If it's up when you crit again, it simply gets overwritten. You were thinking of Vengeance, the talent that provides an additional 1/2/3% bonus to physical and holy damage after you crit. Apparently they decided to nix that buff a little while ago, I'm disappointed by it myself but I guess it was too powerful at 5 stacks?
graspee wrote:
The only good I can see as holy is "Forbearance removed from Avenging Wrath" and the new taunt to throw into the limited rotation when you want to actually damage something (if it does decent damage- though it probably won't).
Forbearance is removed from AW, but you still can't use AW within 30 secs of DP, DS and HoP and vice-versa. Waiting 30 seconds is a lot better than waiting two minutes like before though. As for the taunt, it doesn't seem to scale with anything as far as I know. As a level 80 Ret pally, it does a whopping 64 holy damage on an 8 second cooldown, lol.
you guys are missing the best patch of them all:
Divine Protection!
its a Shield Wall w/o the shield. i was using it on aoe pulls in Naxx and used it a couple times in WG when DS was on cd. hawt. it cuts the dmg in but lets Ret Aura fully proc.
it scales with all relevant spell modifiers.
Divine Protection!
its a Shield Wall w/o the shield. i was using it on aoe pulls in Naxx and used it a couple times in WG when DS was on cd. hawt. it cuts the dmg in but lets Ret Aura fully proc.
Quote:
As for the taunt, it doesn't seem to scale with anything as far as I know
it scales with all relevant spell modifiers.
tommyguns wrote:
Quote:
As for the taunt, it doesn't seem to scale with anything as far as I know
it scales with all relevant spell modifiers.
I've noticed this. When I first trained it I went to to test it out and it did 53 damage. Later in a Heroic group (2 Priests and 2 Warriors) It was hitting for almost 70.
Ahh, Wchigo you're right, i did mean Vengeance. But i just logged on, if you look in your ret talent tree it's now reading "This ability stacks up to 5 times". It said 3 last night.
The problem is, i've been testing it on the training dummies and it's still only stacking to 3....
The problem is, i've been testing it on the training dummies and it's still only stacking to 3....
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