Help with DPSFollow

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to the game, with my paladin being my first character that I've played and levelled up to 80. As usual the race to 80 seems to have blighted a learning curse in certain PvP quests, items and such-like. As a result I have reached 80, but I am not not kitted very well, nor do I believe my talent tree is well selected. I am constantly being critised for my poor DPS in dungeons/raids, but what I need is some helpful suggestions.

Here is a link to my character on the armoury:

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twilight%27s+Hammer&n=Goggy

Here is a link to the DPS checker for myself (I couldn't find spell power though, so I've entered it as 0)

http://maxdps.com/paladin/retribution.php?saveID=639a620755

As you can see MaxDPS returns about 841, which is about what I am getting, and I believe it is very poor.

I have tried to follow the DPS spell cycle of Seal of Command - Judgement of Light - Crusader Strike - Divine Storm, but it doesn't seem to improve my standing. I am also using recount in-game and the figures are about the same.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Yeah I just read that over at Elitist Jerks, will try that tonight.

I also think one of the fundamentals I've missed is strength. Nearly every item I've chosen has been for stamina (with a little blue/purple blindness thrown in)

empty post there you didn't link the right address, might want to go back refill it in and then click on the link that says something like post to site or something to that end.

Just a thought, what glyphs are you using?

Edited, Jan 19th 2009 10:52am by KevMc

Thanks for the info, I see what you mean. When I said I'd been hit by some purple/blue blindness I was clearly understating. I've had the ability to make at least two of those items for a while now.

I have a terrible feeling that some of the items which are quest rewards have long since been despatched to the vendor, but I shall check with the quest givers tonight. Or does anyone know of a way to see a list of the names of quests that you have completed?

Easiest things you can do:

Get all of the Strength you can get, and enough hit rating to be hit capped (nothing like having a critical hit miss due to low hit rating to gimp your DPS HORRIBLY).

Make sure your critical hit chance is at least 25% and your attack power is at least 2000 (preferably higher for both, but these are good starting points)

Don't worry too much about Stam. It is nice, but you shouldn't be the person getting hit in Dungeons/Raids. Agility is nice, but not as nice as some of the other stats. Int, Wis, and Armor Penetration should be ignored (if you get a nice item with ArP or Int on it that is also an overall upgrade, take it, but these are not stats you want to focus on in any way). Ignore defensive talents pretty much completely.

Make sure that your talent tree is set up for maximum DPS and that your rotations are as well. With the changes to SoC, if you have the glyph of SoC it is now very competitive with SoB/SotM, so if you prefer SoC and are glyphed for it, it isn't really going to gimp your DPS TOO much, although I think the general consensus is that SoB/SotM is still a bit better.

I can't over-emphasize the importance of strenth and hit rating though. You want to hit things (not miss) and hit them HARD.

This really isn't great advice. Judgement is your best damage and best mana source and should be used very early in any rotation to maximize its use. That being said Ret abilities are basically 1st come 1st serve with situational preferences. Single target priority is judge>HW(at 20%)CS>DS>Cons. For AoE situations, DS>Cons>HolyWrath(if undead/demon)>Judge>CS. Deciding which to use 1st really depends on your tank, not so much for single targets but for AoE situations sometimes you may wish to delay that DS+Cons+HW combo unless rolling with a decent pally tank.

Pet Peeve Alert:

Your Wrong = wrong belonging to you

You're Wrong = contraction for you are wrong.

As far as the math, yes it works on paper, no it doesn't work in real life. You can't always cast what you want due to a variety of factors including global cooldowns and such.

If there are undead around, you are going to be using exorcism and holy wrath in your rotations (unless you like to fail).

Yes, for the ideal, non-undead, exactly 10-minute boss fight, your math works. In the majority of real-world encounters, Judgement first (in a group setting) is usually your best bet. It MAY throw off your rotation at some brief point during a fight, but not very often.

I have yet to run into a boss (even in a raid) in WotLK that takes a full 10-minutes to kill.

Yodale, your advice is appreciated, but it is misguiding.

sit back and enjoy the ability tutorial:

Judgement - most powerful ability. adds 3% crit to the target as well as the given debuff. begins the replenishment effect. restores base mana AFTER spell cost is taken away. with SoB, causes self-dmg and begs for a mana-filled heal. you should open almost ALL single target fights with this, just make sure tank has proper aggro. this can be used at range. may proc Righteous Vengeance.

CS - near auto-attack dmg. no additional bonuses. just about the lowest priority ability. the short cd makes it versatile.

DS - great dmg when used with SoB. causes heals based on dmg done(not counting seal). this can be used at moderate range for when you are rooted or chasing a target. caution should be used with multiple targets should you choose to open with it for aoe. may proc Righteous Vengeance, but since it doesn't include the seal dmg it will overwrite the proc from Judgement with a lesser version.

stop here. these are the main rotation abilities. during a fight the cooldowns will overlap. choose the ability that will grant the most bang for the buck. chances are this will be Judgement or DS(both of which also have a crit libram) depending on the surrounding threat. all of the following abilities are to be used when these 3 abilities are on cooldown.

Consecration - will add a huge amount of dps in single and multi target. it is a constant flow of dmg when used. it is a mana hog and to be used only when you know how to manage your mp. because this is a DoT it deserves priority over other secondary abilities(especially when you are expecting to be silenced or need to move out of range). this ability is outstanding in aoe. because it is an area DoT and has a decent range it should be used before DS in aoe situations, also creates slower threat generation.

Exorcism - decent dmg on valid targets. moderate cooldown makes it work very well into full single target rotations. *edit: instant ranged attack! super useful when running back in to a fight, or up in the air from a knockback.

Holy Wrath - nice aoe dmg with stun effect. long cooldown hinders its use. i recommend this for undead aoe in the order: Consecrate to gather the targets, Holy Wrath to dmg and stun em, DS to finish em off. this creates max dmg and controls aggro. the stun part of this is awesome for adds(H UK anyone?)

Hammer of Wrath - at 20% this becomes your secondary ability of choice. i would even put it before CS. the dmg to mana ratio is insane with this guy. if you dont crit almost every time, you need reroll.


when using trinkets and Avenging Wrath, be sure you have a fresh rotation coming up. since i use the Venture Co. libram i will lay a consecrate down, hit AW, then DS->Judge->CS->secondary. then i continue a priority rotation after that.

hope this helps or at least gets you thinking. im sure i left a bunch of stuff out.


Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 8:34pm by tommyguns

I agree with you. I over simplified things. You have to work on a ability priority model. There is no set rotation for maximum DPS. I guess my point is that Judging then using CS unless you only have the mana to judge is not optimal. That is my only issue with rotation. If 3 cool downs come up at the same time, judge, DS, then do CS. It's ok that some of you missed my point. You'll probably miss it again...sigh.

honestly goggy, you neednt worry about all the clutter of words and numbers they spit out at you.

str = your best friend. ironically, some tanking gear does have more dps than actual damage gear because of hit and str, so even if its for tanking, grab it if its an upgrade.

agi and crit rating are essentially equal

stam matters very little in pve

the intricate rotations they explained should just feel natural and you should be able to push a button to dish out damage every gcd

if you're not in a hardcore raiding guild, who cares what your dps is as long as you're having fun and the fights are going well

To the OP. Like a few have stated above set reachable goals first. No one likes an undergeared dpser getting carried through, even said dpser.

In order to do this look at the Rep faction pieces you can pick up. There are a few pieces that can be obtained like the boots from Ebon Rep that will last you for quite some time. These don't require lucky rolls or even a party to help you. There are dailies that can get you into exalted with most reps that have some sort of plate dps gear (not all are designed for Ret Pallies but they are foot in the door). At the same time your making gold that you can put toward AH epics like the Spiked Titansteel Treads, Cloak of Bloodied Waters, Titansteel Destroyer or if your game enough the Nobles Deck (strength version). If your looking at heroics Utgarde Keep has a nice set of legs that drop off the last boss, Nexus has a nice trinket and belt that drop off the last boss, DrakTharon has a nice Chest piece with everything a Ret pally needs on it that frequently drops off the Lich Boss.

Fix your talents. You only need 10pts in Prot as PvE spec (5 if your not taking BoKings). The rest should go into Fanaticism, Crusade, Sheath of light, Judgements of the Wise. Take the points out of Eye for an Eye. You shouldn't be hit as dps let alone crit.

Find a rotation that works for you. I can tell you now that my spell rotation is different to what most other Ret's above use but for me, and my gear setup it works.
The following is taken straight from Elitist jerks Wrath/3.0 Ret Guide about our spell rotation:



Different situations call for different openers. Sometimes you can judge, other times Exorcism, CS/DS if the tank can't build quick threat. Like Tommy stated (this is something I use quite alot against undead mobs) Holy Wrath then Divine Storm. A mob that is stunned can't parry, dodge or block. Use Judgement of Wisdom when you can if your having mana issues. Use SotMartyr, it procs on every hit (think about Divine Storm when there are multiple mobs about).

Attack from behind! Yes there is no honour fighting like a rogue but it stops mobs from parrying and blocking. This means more hits for you and less parries for the tank to worry about.

Think about the situation at hand. If there are 2-4 mobs go with Divine Storm instead of Crusader Strike. Use consecration wisely as it can be mana expensive. Use it early so there is no waste if all the mobs die before it finishes ticking.

Try things out yourself. I equip the green libram from Borean Tundra most of the time (I have the others) even though most people here wouldn't. It works for me so I do it.



Have faith. Almost all of the gear I have was from PuGs as I was in the same situation as you not too long ago.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2009 4:12pm by arthoriuss

Deleted link to Elitist Jerks forum. Apologies ToJ. I hadn't seen that you had updated the Ret Guide.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2009 4:25pm by arthoriuss