Well first off, I play a paladin and I understand that bear druids no longer need defense rating to tank. I don't want to look like an idiot that has no idea what they're talking about so I come to you with 2 questions:
1. Is not needing defense mean that it is not needed but that a good bear tank should have some anyway, or has it become a worthless stat with SotF?
2. And what would the minimum guidelines be to tank heroics and 10 mans? If they dont have all that defense other tanks have, where should their avoidence stats be at?
Thanks for your time.
edit: typo
Edited, Jan 12th 2009 6:32am by Agest
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Bear Tanks; Help me understandFollow
Defense still adds some avoidance beyond the uncrittable point so it's "okay" but certainly not something to stack. Shouldn't be eschewed but losing some as you upgrade gear isn't a problem either.
I'm not really sure on heroic readiness. I'd like to know myself, it's something that wasn't clear cut to me in BC either.
I'm not really sure on heroic readiness. I'd like to know myself, it's something that wasn't clear cut to me in BC either.
Defense rating does add a negligible amount of dodge so it's not BAD, but it's not something you "need" as far as being uncrittable goes. That's what people are usually talking about when they say it's needed, a la "OMG you absolutely must have 540 def rating to be uncrittable or you just can't can't can't tank heroics."
As far as minimum stats needed to tank heroics, from what I've read and been told I am just inside the bubble of heroic readiness with 30k HP, 32% dodge and 25k armor. That's self-buffed with MotW. I tanked my first heroic the other day, UK, and we made it through with just one wipe...healer disconnected mid-pull. We actually made it through pretty easy so it's possible that "bear minimum" might be a smidge lower than that, I can't say for sure.
As far as minimum stats needed to tank heroics, from what I've read and been told I am just inside the bubble of heroic readiness with 30k HP, 32% dodge and 25k armor. That's self-buffed with MotW. I tanked my first heroic the other day, UK, and we made it through with just one wipe...healer disconnected mid-pull. We actually made it through pretty easy so it's possible that "bear minimum" might be a smidge lower than that, I can't say for sure.
Agest wrote:
Well first off, I play a paladin and I understand that bear druids no longer need defense rating to tank. I don't want to look like an idiot that has no idea what they're talking about so I come to you with 2 questions:
1. Is not needing defense mean that it is not needed but that a good bear tank should have some anyway, or has it become a worthless stat with SotF?
2. And what would the minimum guidelines be to tank heroics and 10 mans? If they dont have all that defense other tanks have, where should their avoidence stats be at?
Thanks for your time.
edit: typo
Edited, Jan 12th 2009 6:32am by Agest
1. Is not needing defense mean that it is not needed but that a good bear tank should have some anyway, or has it become a worthless stat with SotF?
2. And what would the minimum guidelines be to tank heroics and 10 mans? If they dont have all that defense other tanks have, where should their avoidence stats be at?
Thanks for your time.
edit: typo
Edited, Jan 12th 2009 6:32am by Agest
With our SotF, defense is not "needed" but some gear will have it(ie. rings, neck peice) and it does help a small bit(nothing we would ever stack or focus on) to our survivability. I can't remember for sure the stats I started out with for heroics and 10 mans, but I think my HP was around 30K to mid 30K with buffs. I think my dodge was around 30% (not even close to sure about that, just a guess), and armor was probably 25K - 30K ish. I was still in a couple peices of T6 as well, so my view might be a bit off from that of a "normal" bear tank leveling in quest gear. Hope some of this was at least little helpful to ya.
weeedoggy wrote:
With our SotF, defense is not "needed" but some gear will have it(ie. rings, neck peice) and it does help a small bit(nothing we would ever stack or focus on) to our survivability.
To quantify this, per http://www.wowwiki.com/Defense:
For Warriors/Pallies, defense rating:
- Grants uncrittability at cap
- Increases block chance by .04% per point (such that each 25 rating grants 1%)
- Increases parry chance by .04%
- Increases dodge chance by .04%
- Increases chance to be missed by .04%
For Feral Druids, defense rating:
- Increases dodge chance by .04%
- Increases chance to be missed by .04%
JeeBar wrote:
As far as minimum stats needed to tank heroics, from what I've read and been told I am just inside the bubble of heroic readiness with 30k HP, 32% dodge and 25k armor. That's self-buffed with MotW.
To add a bit to this I'm at 30.9k hp, 35% dodge and 30k armor unbuffed and I have nothing left to gain from heroics. I would say 25k health, 30% dodge and around 25k armor would get you through most of the heroics. I've healed Paladin/Warrior/DK tanks that only had 22k hp buffed so I know it can be done. I haven't had many bear tanks (I'm resto and feral) so I can only go on my own stats.
I started heroics with around 25k health in bear form, around 30% dodge and I don't think I had more than 20k armor. My pocket healer definitely was not overgeared either and it was fine for the easier heroics. HoL wasn't very fun though.
Nuit Midril - White Mage/Scholar on Ultros
Nuit the Insane! - Retired Druid on Sentinels.
Ombre - Retired Dragoon/bard on Phoenix.
SkibumOnShiva wrote:
To add a bit to this I'm at 30.9k hp, 35% dodge and 30k armor unbuffed and I have nothing left to gain from heroics.
Me too and it is sad. My crit is around 35% and have a 126 hit and 30 expertise. I am using badges for resto gear. I took a week off from heroics until I got an Ebon tabard as I had capped the other 3 at exalted all ready.
The stats you gave are solid for both 10 and 25 man tanking BTW. Yes, run out of gear upgrades in heroic and you an be a good 25 man raid tank. Well equipment wise at least. :) For 10 mans you could be even less geared and tank.
/hijack
I decided this weekend I am going to force or trick my guild into a raid schedule. The actually officers and GMs don't seemed to have the desire to take the plunge. Most of us have been PuGing 10 and 25 mans. I think I am going to try and convince them to only PuG 25 mans. Keep the 10 mans for guild runs and start gearing people. I feel I know most of the fights enough to do it but damn its weird. Any pointers on starting to be a raid leader?
edit: checked armory for some stats
Edited, Jan 12th 2009 4:48pm by Horsemouth
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
1 point of DefenseRating is worth about 0.64 points of DodgeRating, so while it isn't as good as Ar, Sta, Agi or Dodge, it is still a pretty decent stat which is nice to have.
Right, I think of it roughly as 1 point of defense = 2/3 point of dodge. Agility is better than both because it gives us crit and armor.
With the night elf racial, you also get a base 2% chance to be missed, so you have to add up "dodge plus chance to be missed" to get your real avoidance.
With the night elf racial, you also get a base 2% chance to be missed, so you have to add up "dodge plus chance to be missed" to get your real avoidance.
Gearing a bear tank in WotLK is silly easy given the changes to talents that make ferals uncrittable.
Don't be scared off by heroics. I started them at 24k health, 25k armor and 30% dodge and had no problems. Basically, dodge is your only avoidance, so build that up. It seems most bears I see running around in heroic/T7 gear (including me) have high 20k armor, 28-30k health and 35-40% dodge. But you can start accruing that gear with lower stats.
Don't be scared off by heroics. I started them at 24k health, 25k armor and 30% dodge and had no problems. Basically, dodge is your only avoidance, so build that up. It seems most bears I see running around in heroic/T7 gear (including me) have high 20k armor, 28-30k health and 35-40% dodge. But you can start accruing that gear with lower stats.
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