Theo, I saw your proposed 80 muti build. I have one question; why do you have points in improved eviscerate? Isn't the cycle going to be 5en/5rup, or is it now 5ev/5rup? If it's using envenom instead of eviscerate, why not move talent points to blood spatter and ruthlessness(or vigor?)?
Edited, Oct 5th 2008 2:54pm by bandefaca
Edited, Oct 7th 2008 4:57pm by bandefaca
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bandefaca wrote:
Theo, I saw your proposed 80 muti build. I have one question; why do you have points in improved eviscerate? Isn't the cycle going to be 5en/5snd, or is it now 5ev/5snd? If it's using envenom instead of eviscerate, why not move talent points to blood spatter and ruthlessness(or vigor?)?
Edited, Oct 5th 2008 2:54pm by bandefaca
Edited, Oct 5th 2008 2:54pm by bandefaca
Do you read talent descriptions?
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=51669
Edited, Oct 5th 2008 12:44pm by Theophany
10 posts
I may be missing something, but
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fr0znf1r3/images/detail/#408/cuttothechasekz1.png
Hence the 5 envenom/5 rupture
EDIT: Blah, sorry about that typo in the last post, I mean 5env/5rup
Edited, Oct 7th 2008 4:56pm by bandefaca
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fr0znf1r3/images/detail/#408/cuttothechasekz1.png
Hence the 5 envenom/5 rupture
EDIT: Blah, sorry about that typo in the last post, I mean 5env/5rup
Edited, Oct 7th 2008 4:56pm by bandefaca
I think what Theo is pointing out is that once you get your SnD going you go all out with a 5ev/5env rotation. No more rupture and gaurenteed SnD uptime.
What I see is that you will be varying between 4 and 5 combo points based on crits and seal fate.
What I see is that you will be varying between 4 and 5 combo points based on crits and seal fate.
bandefaca wrote:
I may be missing something, but
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fr0znf1r3/images/detail/#408/cuttothechasekz1.png
Hence the 5 envenom/5 rupture
EDIT: Blah, sorry about that typo in the last post, I mean 5env/5rup
Edited, Oct 7th 2008 4:56pm by bandefaca
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fr0znf1r3/images/detail/#408/cuttothechasekz1.png
Hence the 5 envenom/5 rupture
EDIT: Blah, sorry about that typo in the last post, I mean 5env/5rup
Edited, Oct 7th 2008 4:56pm by bandefaca
Still faceplaming, here.
5e/5n means there will never be a chance for SnD to drop.
When envenom and eviscerate both do more DPS than rupture, why on earth would you use a sub-par finisher?
Edit: it appears that rupture is actually doing more buffed damage due to Blood Spatter, thus finisher rotations are 5e/5r, though still not like you thought; 5n/5r.
I am going back and editing my mutilate build.
Edited, Oct 8th 2008 11:31am by Theophany
10 posts
Ok, one final question; did blizzard change the AP scaling in eviscerate? In present raids, I use envenom, as it ignores the entire concept of a boss having armor, and eviscerate doesn't compare to the damage envenom does, based on my experience. So, yeah, did Blizz decide to change eviscerate's damage from ap?
bandefaca wrote:
Ok, one final question; did blizzard change the AP scaling in eviscerate? In present raids, I use envenom, as it ignores the entire concept of a boss having armor, and eviscerate doesn't compare to the damage envenom does, based on my experience. So, yeah, did Blizz decide to change eviscerate's damage from ap?
You use envenom currently?
Next thing you'll tell me is that you're mutilate specced for raids.
Rotations are done as snd/rupture cycles. If you're not using a cycle, you're a bad rogue.
Envenom is the worst finisher you can use as it's actually a loss of DPS instead of just less DPS.
And yes, they scaled up the AP modifier in eviscerate for the new ranks.
I'm curious why none of the level 70 2.0.3 Mutilate raiding specs take Opportunity. I know the old logic of DW Spec > Opportunity, but now that Opportunity is only 2 talent points for 20% increased Muti damage, I don't think that true any longer. So why aren't you getting this? I've played a little bit with Vulajin's WotLK spreadsheet, and I always get higher DPS numbers by taking 2/2 Opportunity at level 70. It seems like DPS is highest if you take 3/5 Relentless Strikes and 2/2 Opportunity, but 51/3/7 is still higher than 51/5/5 (getting 5/5 Relentless Strikes). Am I missing something here?
CamelToad wrote:
I'm curious why none of the level 70 2.0.3 Mutilate raiding specs take Opportunity. I know the old logic of DW Spec > Opportunity, but now that Opportunity is only 2 talent points for 20% increased Muti damage, I don't think that true any longer. So why aren't you getting this? I've played a little bit with Vulajin's WotLK spreadsheet, and I always get higher DPS numbers by taking 2/2 Opportunity at level 70. It seems like DPS is highest if you take 3/5 Relentless Strikes and 2/2 Opportunity, but 51/3/7 is still higher than 51/5/5 (getting 5/5 Relentless Strikes). Am I missing something here?
My own personal math shows both 5/5 DWS and 5/5 Relentless is more DPS than 2/2 Opportunity and 3/5 of either. It may be that you're using two slow daggers (which is parsing lower DPS than fast/fast currently), thus the higher DPS weight given to Opportunity.
Ah, that could be it. I'm pretty sure I was using Slow/Fast (1.8/1.5) for the daggers. Thanks Theo.
10 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You use envenom currently?
Next thing you'll tell me is that you're mutilate specced for raids.
Rotations are done as snd/rupture cycles. If you're not using a cycle, you're a bad rogue.
Envenom is the worst finisher you can use as it's actually a loss of DPS instead of just less DPS.
And yes, they scaled up the AP modifier in eviscerate for the new ranks.
Next thing you'll tell me is that you're mutilate specced for raids.
Rotations are done as snd/rupture cycles. If you're not using a cycle, you're a bad rogue.
Envenom is the worst finisher you can use as it's actually a loss of DPS instead of just less DPS.
And yes, they scaled up the AP modifier in eviscerate for the new ranks.
Actually, no, I only use it when bosses are in the last 5% of their health and an SnD or rupture will be useless, and I am combat sword spec, currently. And nice try at making me look like an idiot, I'd appreciate it just as much if you were to answer my question in the first reply, instead of making me waste a few precious minutes checking for responces. But no matter, Thanks for the answer.
4 posts
So what will you choose so far in muti build http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIuVo0xZhb. I have Edge of Oppression,Feltooth Eviscerator,Tracker's blade all s2 and badges for Swift Blade of Uncertainty. I am thinking to put Swift Blade of Uncertainty as mh and Tracker's blade oh.Or maybe sth else?
One more question, if we dont need so many hit in muti than what should be our minimal goal there?I will have 285 without precision.Should i replace gems to aim for 220 or sth? Thanks for help.
One more question, if we dont need so many hit in muti than what should be our minimal goal there?I will have 285 without precision.Should i replace gems to aim for 220 or sth? Thanks for help.
TFea wrote:
So what will you choose so far in muti build http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIuVo0xZhb. I have Edge of Oppression,Feltooth Eviscerator,Tracker's blade all s2 and badges for Swift Blade of Uncertainty. I am thinking to put Swift Blade of Uncertainty as mh and Tracker's blade oh.Or maybe sth else?
One more question, if we dont need so many hit in muti than what should be our minimal goal there?I will have 285 without precision.Should i replace gems to aim for 220 or sth? Thanks for help.
One more question, if we dont need so many hit in muti than what should be our minimal goal there?I will have 285 without precision.Should i replace gems to aim for 220 or sth? Thanks for help.
Uh...
Theo mind conjuring me up a level 70 PVP mutilate build? cheers :P
Edited, Oct 13th 2008 5:20am by Speedburst
Edited, Oct 13th 2008 5:20am by Speedburst
Speedburst wrote:
Theo mind conjuring me up a level 70 PVP mutilate build? cheers :P
Edited, Oct 13th 2008 5:20am by Speedburst
Edited, Oct 13th 2008 5:20am by Speedburst
This Very Thread
Overlord Theophany wrote:
There have been threads and posts talking about the WotLK talents, and what spec people are using.
Let me say this straight out after discussion among the rogues and extensive theorycrafting on the beta forums:
Mutilate will be the new raid spec as of right now (9/17/08) if nothing changes in the rogue talents if nothing changes before 11/13/08 (WotLK release).
This is due to Cut to the Chase (CttC) allowing a 5e/5r rotation, keeping up SnD.
Mutilate
70: 51/5/5
80: 51/13/7
Combat
70: 5/51/5
80: 15/51/5
NB on combat: right now, fist/dagger (1.4 speed) is seeming to do more damage than sword/sword in beta. For more info check EJ.
Vulajin's WotLK Spreadsheet
As for Sub, you shouldn't be speccing Sub to level. Combat and Mutilate are far more efficient.
No need for discussion. I've done the math. Cheerio.
Let me say this straight out after discussion among the rogues and extensive theorycrafting on the beta forums:
Mutilate will be the new raid spec as of right now (9/17/08) if nothing changes in the rogue talents if nothing changes before 11/13/08 (WotLK release).
This is due to Cut to the Chase (CttC) allowing a 5e/5r rotation, keeping up SnD.
70: 51/5/5
80: 51/13/7
70: 5/51/5
80: 15/51/5
NB on combat: right now, fist/dagger (1.4 speed) is seeming to do more damage than sword/sword in beta. For more info check EJ.
As for Sub, you shouldn't be speccing Sub to level. Combat and Mutilate are far more efficient.
No need for discussion. I've done the math. Cheerio.
Quote:
This Very Thread
Those are PvE specs :)
Don't think it's been mentioned, sorry if it has. But in raids with a retadin you're likely to swap Master Poisoner for Turn the Tables. Haven't seen enough personal DPS comparisons (only a very small sample pool from beta raids so far) to make up my mind. Just wanted to note it.
Speedburst wrote:
Quote:
This Very Thread
Those are PvE specs :)
I C Wut U Did Thar
After my crash course today I know what mut raiding spec to run with, but am not sold yet on a PvP build. Most of the builds in this and therions posts concern leveling. What are your thoughts on a 70 pvp build now? Go ahead and flame/yell, it's been a while :)
EDIT: Here is my leveling with buddies (NOT INSTANCES/RAIDS) with casual pvp considered build. In the words of Wayne - Flame On!
Link
Edited, Oct 14th 2008 6:26pm by ThomasMagnum
Edited, Oct 14th 2008 6:26pm by ThomasMagnum
EDIT: Here is my leveling with buddies (NOT INSTANCES/RAIDS) with casual pvp considered build. In the words of Wayne - Flame On!
Link
Edited, Oct 14th 2008 6:26pm by ThomasMagnum
Edited, Oct 14th 2008 6:26pm by ThomasMagnum
3 posts
I've been looking for a PVP build to use in 3.0.2 until WotLK comes out. I know Theo says Sub isn't useful for leveling, but since I won't be leveling for a month I wondered if there was a good Sub build for PVP in the mean time.
2 posts
Theo, can you post an adaptation of your combat lvling spec that works for swords? I'm aware that it's not as efficient as fist/dagger at the moment, but I'm sitting on S2 swords right now and it doesn't seem worth it to spend hours trying to find (or farm honor/badges for) a comparable fist/dagger combo.
13 posts
Impressive work.. However time to update the talent trees. I a poison mutt now, I would say I have to take the HFB approach.
What are everyones thoughts, i know it faily new, but i just thought id start
thx
Adderdance
What are everyones thoughts, i know it faily new, but i just thought id start
thx
Adderdance
13 posts
What about SAP? no points into that?
13 posts
oh and steatlh.. im moving like a snail now. no camo?
35 posts
Theo...trying to pull up you rogue armory and all im getting is combat sword spec 0/34/27, which actually looks pretty good. But i noticed its a pretty old spec and wondered if you had actually switched to a mut. build as you had previously planned on doing??..thanks.
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