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#52 Feb 01 2008 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
Saaru wrote:
Also, the TOC feels a bit long. Looks like you have some spacing issues separating the groupings.


As for this problem, I noticed the issue on OmniWeb (Safari, basically). It looked fine when I used IE, so you may or may not want to look into it.
#53 Feb 01 2008 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
You may want to consider adding the in-game tool tip text to the Talents section. Even as a pally myself, I didn't know what some of those talents did without looking them up. Your summary of whether to get them or not is good, but as a complete reference, it would be nice to know what they do, as opposed to just "Useful in PvP, not in PvE". I dunno, gives a bigger picture as to what is important, and why?


I'm not sure if adding the tooltips is a good idea. If the person wants to see the tooltip, they are readily available on WoWHead and the WoW main page. Adding the tool tips will just create a wall of text and it will be harder to find the information they want.

I think the best thing that you can add to the guide is the stat conversions like RP said. It might take a bunch of math and figuring, but it will be well worth it when you can rate every single piece of equipment there with a point value.
#54 Feb 08 2008 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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648 posts
ok,, added 1.3 to the TOC and added some stats equivelants to 1.2.... any comments on my math would be helpful. also, if anyone knows more than me how much DPS armor penetration is worth, that'd be handy
#55 Feb 12 2008 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Well I just nominated this for a sticky, if others want to go over there and show your support for it go ahead and help out.
#56 Feb 12 2008 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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808 posts
It has been stickied? Gratz ToJ and everyone else who put in so much effort!
#57 Feb 14 2008 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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225 posts
Mistake in 5.2.5

hit/agi gems have prefix glinting, not glistering
#58 Feb 18 2008 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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1,225 posts
toolofjesus wrote:

% of DPS stats:
1 agi = .04% DPS
1 crit rating = .045% DPS
1 hit rating = .0634% DPS (up till hit cap)
1 agi = .88 crit rating = .63 hit rating (till hit cap) = .04% DPS
1% DPS = 25 agi = 22 crit rating = 15.77 hit rating (till hit cap)
Based on this you can see that hit rating will boost your DPS the most up till you reach the hit cap. After this for equal amounts of crit rating and agility, crit rating will boost your dps by more.



Great guide, I think. I've not read it all but I'd like to spend some time doing that.

I might be missing something fundamental and if this is the case, I apologize. You mention % DPS and I really don't understand this. How do you get a % boost to DPS?

It could be that you're putting the % at the wrong end, e.g. 1% crit rating = 0.045 DPS but I'm too tired to work it out.
#59 Feb 18 2008 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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648 posts
Leodis wrote:
toolofjesus wrote:

% of DPS stats:
1 agi = .04% DPS
1 crit rating = .045% DPS
1 hit rating = .0634% DPS (up till hit cap)
1 agi = .88 crit rating = .63 hit rating (till hit cap) = .04% DPS
1% DPS = 25 agi = 22 crit rating = 15.77 hit rating (till hit cap)
Based on this you can see that hit rating will boost your DPS the most up till you reach the hit cap. After this for equal amounts of crit rating and agility, crit rating will boost your dps by more.



Great guide, I think. I've not read it all but I'd like to spend some time doing that.

I might be missing something fundamental and if this is the case, I apologize. You mention % DPS and I really don't understand this. How do you get a % boost to DPS?

It could be that you're putting the % at the wrong end, e.g. 1% crit rating = 0.045 DPS but I'm too tired to work it out.



crit and hit rating don't give you an easily measurable number of DPS. if you have 1% crit then it will effectly over time give you 1% more damage based on how much dps you'd be doing w/o the crits. 2% total crit will be 1% more dps. 1% dps is very different if you have 1000 AP doing maybe 300 non-crit dps or 2000 AP doing more like 500 non-crit dps... 1% of 300 is 3, 1% OF 500 is 5. does that help?

i want to come up w/ a not too hard formula for AP and Crit to affect DPS but it's not easy, and i'm not sure a "not too hard" one is even possible.

str/ap i give a straight dps number for but even that is only part of the answer. if your crit % is higher obviously the benefit from str/ap will be higher by that %. what i might do is make a chart comparing 1% crit/hit at several AP's and more accurate AP boost at several crit/hit %..... but that's for later. and really not terribly necessary. if people really want to know i'd say 25% crit is the base crit to keep vengeance up 100% of the time and beyond that my math has made it seem str/ap will boost your dps more than "equivelant" crit until something like 3500-4000 AP at which point crit starts being equal w/ str.... but that's really really REALLY far off for me... lol.

priorities should be
first - get hit rating cap'd
second - 25% crit
third - str/AP
fourth - at somewhere around 3500-4000 AP balance extra str/ap and crit for max gain

if this doesn't help, please let me know and i'll try again.
#60 Feb 20 2008 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
Just reading through again, i got to the Librams.

just thought i would be nice to let people know that
Libram of Devine Judgment is not all that usefull for the BE PvE Ret (PvP still works fine as you should be using SoC), as it doesnt work with Seal of Blood.

Also Take a look at this link for Libram of Avengment
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33503#comments
it seems that simply Refreshing a judgement will also proc the Crit buff, making it far more usefull (if not permenent) then first glance, again only if your Allience using SoV.

I though a small note would be good on at least the Libram of Devine Judgment. i was almost about to spend 20 badges on it untill just now when i noticed that obscure fact.

Edited, Feb 20th 2008 2:56pm by RuenBahamut
#61 Feb 20 2008 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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648 posts
thanks ruen. i hadn't noticed that myself. i'll mention that.
#62 Apr 10 2008 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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490 posts
I have been pure holy pretty much since my 40's (a long time ago), but am thinking of changing it up since I am not planning to raid and don't PvP. I have a group that already has a healer in Tier 5 and tank, and was wondering how I can be useful - this guide gives me hope!

Now I wish I had spent days farming the Ragesteel plans instead of Khorium...guess I'll be spending some more time farming recipes. Good thing I like farming :P

Anyways, thanks for this very thorough guide - hopefully I can get all set up and see how it goes in the next week or so.

#63 Apr 13 2008 at 2:50 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
It will proc on average 7 times per minute


I am sorry to say that this is incorrect, from my experience from my now deleted Paladin, i must have fought with 9 mobs and SoC procc'ed say 1-3 times over all 9 fights, which made it pretty useless.

I honestly gave up with it once i saw how crap the skill is, how players see it as the DPS Seal to use for Alliance Pallys, i have no idea.

I even waited 1 minute between fights, so it was 9 minutes total, so if this *7 procs per minute* is correct, then it would have procc'ed 72 times, if it indeed did proc 7 times per minute, i would have stuck with it, but it surely didn't proc 7 times per minute.

It seemed more like 3 procs per 10mins. lol



Edited, Apr 13th 2008 6:54am by JamieKirby
#64 Apr 14 2008 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
I'm sorry to say that IS correct, coming from people doing a lot more math and statistics than your 9 mob fights.

It's not uncommon to get long periods without procs, but there are also times where it will seem that it procs again and again with each weapon. The PPM system just generates a percentage chance to proc based on your weapon speed. So slower weapons will see more procs than faster weapons.

SoC is a great damaging seal, especially for PvP when you need procs to be as bursty as you can.
#65 Apr 14 2008 at 11:16 AM Rating: Default
oh, then i guess me 3.50 attack speed was not slow enough....ok.

Edited, Apr 14th 2008 3:17pm by JamieKirby
#66 Apr 14 2008 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Well, we usually try to aim for 3.6 or slower, so your weapon is a bit fast.

@3.5 you get 17 swings per minute, @7ppm, that means your percentage was ~41% chance to proc SoC per swing.

#67 Apr 14 2008 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
i have a quick question,

when the hell did this come out? and where can i get one?

Green Gem with the properties of a Red

that gem would go perfect in a Red Belt of Battle!

Edited, Apr 14th 2008 2:16pm by RuenBahamut
#68 Apr 20 2008 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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1,503 posts
great link to read or include in FAQ: http://retlol.mrgummage.com/
#69 Apr 24 2008 at 6:08 PM Rating: Default
This guide is for raiding.:( I'm a 24 holy trying to find a great build to respec in to RET so i can level a bit quicker.Holy is good.Don't get me wrong but I just don't do the damage I want or need.Anyone know any links or anything about really good Ret build for Solo play and group activities sometimes.Look at my character if you can in the armoury.Name is Sulvain!
#70 May 26 2008 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
I've just created a wiki for the first part of this guide. Very well written. You can access it here: http://wow.allakhazam.com/wiki/Retribution_Guide_Part_1_%28WoW%29

There is a little cleanup to do on my part yet (formatting, couple links need a fix) but I will do that and start on part two tomorrow for you.
#71 May 28 2008 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
have a quick question,

when the hell did this come out? and where can i get one?

Green Gem with the properties of a Red


I think thats the gem you get when you've completed the mgt heroic pre-q ;)
#72 May 30 2008 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
All four parts of this guide are now live in our guide section in the wiki. You can access them here:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/wiki/Category:Guides_%28WoW%29
#73 Jun 06 2008 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
Woot, I'm not a very good Ret at the moment (although it isn't my main spec) but I'm sure this will help, thanks for posting it.
#74 Jun 10 2008 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
This guide is awesome. You helped me decide to go 100% retribution. Thanks for the help.
#75 Jul 04 2008 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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134 posts
Some things regarding your pvp comments.

Quote:
5.3.1 Weapon:
There are several weapon enchants that would be handy for a Ret. For pure dps Mongoose is easily the best enchant you can get. For more utility, assuming your gear is capable of generating adequate dps by itself, I’d recommend Battlemaster to give yourself Shadow Priest-like healing utility. While this won’t make a third healer for raids, it will take a little healing pressure off the real healers. For PVP I would take Battlemaster for the healing, Savagery for the steady 70 AP boost, or Major Agility for the steady crit increase.


For pvp, only executioner, everything else is inferior. Mongoose is meaningless once your opponents have half decent resil, and executioner splits cloth like a hot knife through butter. Battlemaster is a horrific enchant, pve or pvp, any half decent raid would not want any dpser depriving themselves of mongoose for a gimp half assed healing that barely makes any difference. That's what shadow priests are for, you don't want to gimp yourself so you can pretend to be one. Empirically tested, it has 1 ppm. which is so terribad i would sooner go with no enchant than toss the mats it uses into the weapon. If you want to heal your party then toss judgement of light on the boss, or better yet, make a healer do it and keep it up with CS.

Quote:
For Meta gems a Brutal Earthstrom Diamond, Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond, Potent Unstable Diamond, Relentless Earthstrom Diamond will be your better options. For PVP the Brutal Earthstrom or Potent Unstable Diamond will likely be your best bets for the chance to stun or the stun resist. For PVE I recommend Relentless Earthstrom Diamond or Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond.


I disagree, having pvped in 1.7k, i can tell you for a fact that Brutal earthstorm is not a good pvp enchant. Empirical tests put the proc anywhere from 1 in 1000 to 1%, so generally it's still infestimally small. In pvp you do not want to rely on procs and chance on hits, especially seeing as there's such a small proc rate. There are better options. Potent unstable and relentless earthstorm are both pretty good for pvp, but i still prefer the relentless gem, the 3% crit dmg is good.

Quote:
5.3.9 Feet:
For PVE the best enchant is Dexterity (12 agi). For PVP the best one is probably Cat’s Swiftness (6 agi & speed increase)


You do not want cats swiftness for pvp. Pursuit of Justice already adds 15% speed, and that doesn't stack. Get surefooted, it's the best pvp enchant you can get.

Quote:
This ability by itself is rather useless since you will almost never be using this aura. However, it's more useful than extra blocking, so I recommend taking this to get you to the second tier in Prot.


Take Redoubt, pvp wise it's decently useful, some rets choose to fight rogues exclusively with this equipped, unless the rogue is locked down. It's marginally useful in eating some of the rogue's burst, and it's a darn sight more useful then devo aura ever will be.

It's mostly pvp stuff yeah. You should put up a pvp build, many people go ret solely for pvp, like i did. Thisbuild is the standard pvp ret build, barring some choose to put points into deflection rather than imp sotc.
#76 Jul 14 2008 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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648 posts
ok, edited the talents section. no longer recmmending an off-heal build for pvp. what in the world was i thinking and why did i not get flamed to hell and back again for that peice of retardation... lol.

also not recommending Improved Devo aura in prot over redoubt.

made a few other wording changes, but nothing else major.

if anyone has a good pvp build for ret pls let me know. since many spec ret only for pvp i think it might be good to include a short section on pvp. i also plan on adding a section on leveling builds and updating the gear list. this may take a while so please bear with me...
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