I dont think anyone can disagree with this article.Follow

I think the question that remains, and therefore still the subject of debate is " right by who?" You and I may side with appealing to the majority. However, we have standing evidence right here on how quickly the majority is belittled and misrepresented - regardless of any baring in the realm of fact or reality.

It isn't a myth. I'm permabanned off the XI forums solely because I posted something unpopular, not even offensive or rule-breaking, and I'm far from the only one that has suffered this same fate. I don't know if the XIV forums are modded by the same people but I have heard similar sorts of reports.

Generally if they nuke a thread due to it getting too heated or something, they'll just ban the people in it that were either the most frequent contributors, or the most reported ones. I don't feel like they even actually look at the content of the posts, they just look at the reports/outcry.

Oh that's just precious, clearly the "majority" are the ones being told should be kicked to the curb and "don't understand how the rest of the players play." Hell you can't even admit to being a casual player without, well, you can see what happens. In your words of "reality", people ridicule and misrepresent raiders the most, especially the XIV community. I mean, really look at the subject at hand. Normally people knew the difference between "elitist" and other players, which is why I've always said you normally get a certain attitude from elitist, which people lump everyone into. But clearly not "all casuals" are the same since apparently I'm not casual despite fitting all definitions besides the fact I actually do content in this game. What's the difference between my 1-3 hours a day (not even every day) and someone else's 1-3 hours a day? The fact I choose to do every content in this game rather than shake my head and refuse to do things? o.O



It's literally in their rules you can be banned if you do what I did in a few responses ago and posted a picture that simply showed someone's player name. The biggest issue with OF is they're inconsistent. You can load up plenty of topics and see people go at it hard, but if you say anything against XIV even if it's as simple as "this game is boring" you'll not only get attacked by the typical white knights, but you'll also likely get reported and thus trigger a ban, which isn't moderated, it's part of the software based on how many reports you get.

They THEN review it which is when people get permabanned or not. I know because the modified software SE uses the company I work for currently uses.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2016 10:50am by Theonehio

No, but one of the "requirements" of being casual is having limited playtime. I don't play any longer than most casual players I know or read about that get classified as casual. That's why I asked what makes my 1-3 hours a day different from someone else's 1-3 hours besides the fact I actually choose to do other content than sit around and say it's too hard or inaccessible. I don't think the fact I can clear easy and scripted content makes me hardcore, especially when you can't consider someone hardcore for clearing Hard Mode dungeons because they're tagged "Hard Mode." My "Frustration" comes with the fact they had a perfectly fine raid design that just needed the difficulty to be upped (Coil), because it not only had a better story (which Yoshida admitted at Gamescom), but the raid design was far better.

Otherwise, this game doesn't really have hard content. A game designed around ilvl strictly is going to always be in a weird spot because once you're at a particular ilvl, everything is like encountering a slime in Dragon Quest, however prior to that, everything will seem like walking outside of a starting town and bahamut suddenly laying waste to everyone - you stand no chance.

The reason I don't like many elements of this game is because: They're poorly done. No matter how much someone may want to defend this game, they were not hiding the fact they were building it after WoW and heavily inspired by WoW.

yet WoW did the systems better. It's not even because the game was designed on the PS3 because FFXI has better systems and it was designed in the late 90s. When you look at the game as not just a player, you really sit and think:

"Do they come up with these great ideas then decide how they can ruin it?"

A lot of systems literally are so good in concept and initial implementation until you hit the "Okay what the ****" part of the system, for example weekly lockouts or REMOVING loot because you SO MUCH AS DARED to help someone else clear after you've cleared it. That's just the proof that the system isn't really designed for concurrent players which is why I always said, and get ridiculed for, that if they seriously think keeping the same formula will work a 2nd time for them with 4.0, they're in for a big surprise. There's plenty of people who perfectly love XIV, but 3.0 woke a lot of people up to the way this game really is. So while difficulty and whatnot may change for 4.x, if they keep the same format just with swimming added and it serves NO PURPOSE WHATSOEVER to content despite being one of the focused elements, then I don't know what to so say.

Even XI incorporated elements of the game into the dungeons but then again, XI's dungeons weren't literally hallways people complained about with FFX/X-2/XIII. Hell, if XI had flight you can guarantee some of the dungeons would have been designed with it in mind, I sit and look at HW and see not one dungeon where you have to fly through it or realistically use the flight mechanic for anything other than faster travel, which is fine, but I do remember yoshida saying something about a grand aerial battle, probably against Shinryu, but somehow I'm doubting that since unless there's a sudden "NOPE DRAGONSONG WAR AIN'T OVER YET!" I don't see us having an encounter with any more dragons...

I mean, Weeping City could have been perfect for flight (since it's the last alliance based content of 3.x unless they going to "delay" the expansion again) as there's CLEARLY numerous paths designed in the ..well, city, but we're stuck in one hallway. Which I've said before and I'll always say because of the sheer hilarity of it, but people used "Long hallways" as a reason to hate the XIII games but praises XIV's content design which is literally one long hallway with vendors on the side to enter instanced content. I don't know though, I get ridiculed for it but it's very easy to see that Yoshi and SE knows they don't have to do much to keep people happy. I'm not a person who complains about a cash shop as I actually play and have played many MMOs, but the sheer fact they could have introduced a lot of the Mog Station elements as content rewards, actual content, proves it.

Same with the primal birds/ponies. What prevented them from using the Golden Saucer to introduce battles where you can win them instead of forcing us into 99% obsolete content? The Golden Saucer from VII had a battle arena where you obtained rewards based on points gained, so you'd assume that would have been a feature. Like I said, my "hate" for this game's elements is they really don't seem to be trying with a lot of it as so many other games, their own 2 other MMOs included, does things better that this game should do FAR SUPERIOR in every way.

Simmer down, you're all filthy casuals.

This is called moving the goal posts. It has nothing to do with the fact that you can be hardcore and only play up to a few hours per day.



Yes, for reasons I've already explained enough.

Edited, Aug 25th 2016 11:28am by Thayos

Yeah, which is why I always say it gets confusing when people say "limited time" is part of being casual, then all of a sudden if you happen to fit that category "no no, wait that's not casual at all!" As if the "casual" argument is just more of a convenience thing rather than actual reason as to why they can't do content ("I don't want to or not skilled enough" is perfectly ok to admit.)

Considering the alt I play most that's on NA datacenter is on Balmung and I noticed quite a lot of people play far more than 'hardcore' players yet they don't actually do content most of the time. Hell they play more than I do which depending on my current progression is usually 1-3 hours a day every other 2-3 days since it takes almost no time at all to get 450 lore (it really doesn't) and considering 99% of this game's content base is casual and honestly hands you the gear if you actually take the time to learn it, really hard to consider anyone but world first runners as hardcore players since most raiders that came in from 2.x did Coil, which wasn't "hardcore" in any shape or form, since Coil had the higher PUG rate and even strategies that the "casual gamers" thought up because no progression raider would ever support an enrage method of clearing content when you can clear the same encounter 2-3 times in the time it takes to do 1. That's why A4S was so controversial because one method is literally to kill yourself, that's terrible design.



Which is why even Yoshida says in terms of the JP populace it's not really a matter of "Casual/Hardcore", because with XIV IN PARTICULAR, it literally comes down to your personal choice, not because you define yourself as "casual" or "raider" because all of a sudden people want ilvl235 weapons but didn't want to do Nidhogg Ex and now people want ilvl240 weapons and still somehow can't pull more DPS than tanks. It's depressing all around honestly.

It's mainly why I've been so big on the "type" of endgame that's available. Because when you get down to it, if the PUG scene dictates harder content maybe sees a 1 in 3 clear rate (or worse), you're not going to be wild about participating in that content the Nth time when it's supposed to last 3 months or more. Reasons for failure will include first-timers simply not knowing what's up, people who DO know what's up not bothering to instruct, people who quit or play half-assedly when the group isn't vets, and people who just generally think others will pick up their slack regardless of their personal skill and gear level. On the other end, you'll have some who think they do know what's up, but give bad instructions or not know how to adapt (if DPS is lacking, for example). The ragers suck, and make it difficult to really want to reward their behavior by trying to tough it out, too. And yes, sometimes people are simply derp.

This is the dark side of forced social interaction. It's why some have thrown their hands up and want nothing to do with it if they can help it. Being all, "Oh, just suck it up!" does nothing to solve the problems of why they happen or the general inevitability of content repetition. It's not really a choice at this point, but more a predicament of strong-armed coercion because certain things, usually the best, have no alternative source.

Overall, it's why I pine for multiple paths. Don't like X? Do Y. Don't like Y either? Do Z. Like X and Y? Do them. Like Y and Z? Do those. Like all 3? Have at it. Accessibility should be a thing so someone can at least try each once to see if they like it, but end of the day, if someone only does Z, that should be cool. Right now, MMOs are more about being only X and it seems devs are too timid to branch out.

I've got a bit of a problem with this bit right here. Unless it's right after a patch and no one really knows the mechanics of a new fight, there is no excuse whatsoever for not know a fight before going in. It takes next to no effort to read a wiki or watch a video. Pure laziness is the only reason not to know mechanics ahead of time.

I agree with Hio.

I have all the patience in the world, but I also know with MMOs and RPGs in general, people tend to look up resources because I can assure you Skyrim for example of an offline title doesn't lay out all of the knowledge and what to do/get/where in-game and people usually consult external resources especially if they want to see if a quest is opened up or completed based on certain requirements and what they are. MMOs usually have forum communities with sections dedicated to guides for a reason.

Rotations for example you can't just spout off in the heat of things or before you go into a Level 60 trial or alliance content. By time you hit the level and ilvl, you should know how to play your job. You have access to sooooooo many training dummies from certain camps, to personal houses to a whole content dedicated to it by talking to an NPC outside of the level 60 hub.

I don't mind teaching people, but people have to teach themselves, which is a large reason why there's a "rift" between players to begin with because it becomes very obvious when it's just laziness rather than "avoid spoilers." This isn't FFXI where there's story content tied to the battle so looking up a very small overview of the fight you queued into isn't going to spoil anything.

"Akh Morn? OMG!"
"SUPER JUMP? OMG!"

I like doing things blindly but by time content is so old that you expect people to at least research....do some research. It's new to you but there's a good chance 6/8 people landed there in a roulette and do not want to spend that time wiping endlessly when all they wanted to do was their roulette for the day and go to work/school/sleep lol.

The time window includes what you do after. Since this isn't a fighting game, you can't block/jump/dodge/cancel or whatever. If you've gotta run to a certain spot to avoid the splat, it's probably safe to assume most will need at least a second to acknowledge something is about to happen, and that's not including latency issues. Ranged classes often have it easier in this regard, but melee not so much.

And I'm not really undermining ****. I poke at the hornet's nest of the hardcores because they're a ridiculously sensitive bunch terrified of the casual boogeyman traipsing onto their turf. My argument of self-containment would actually benefit in them in the long run, as well. Training dummies, as Hio brought up, don't teach you how to play well. They just sit there and accept damage. If players are supposed to be learning specific rotations we come to consider standard, then the game needs to be teaching that itself. And if you can't pass a specific task relative to that knowledge, then certain content should remain locked.

On the other hand, we gotta be mindful that enough is enough. 15+ step rotations aren't cool, and I've played too many of these games to see it's more common than it should be. Basically, everyone's going to have different levels of tolerance for high-demand input scenarios. If you're looking at a 10 minute boss fight with a 1.5 GCD and you're riding that hard, that's 400 potential inputs over that span before factoring in movement and oGCDs. I understand frustrations when things go south, truly, but some of these issues could be avoided if fair choice did exist.

Most of us here are probably old enough to recall that little pattern memorization game called Simon, right? I'd like to think I was pretty good at it, myself, and recall taking advantage of that at a semi-local pizza joint that offered rewards for various scores. Sometimes I'd watch my sisters play. Sometimes I'd watch strangers play. Some did well, some not so much. For those where memorization came easily, Simon was a game for them. Those same people that didn't do so well might totally hand me my butt at a game of pool or whatever else. MMOs aren't any different here, but I'm just emphasizing that a decade of playing Simon isn't cutting it for everyone, and getting dismissive because they want their pool-playing fairly recognized is just plain petty.